GR Yaris GR Yaris and oil pressure (in track use)

I don‘t say that the Lamspeed Baffle Plates solve the oil pressure drop issue, but since i have them installed, it never happend again…
Even with much more Aero.

Will check after this season during winter rebuild in what shape the rubber „doors“ on the plates are when i take off the oil sump.
Nice to hear that!
 
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I don‘t say that the Lamspeed Baffle Plates solve the oil pressure drop issue, but since i have them installed, it never happend again…
Even with much more Aero.

Will check after this season during winter rebuild in what shape the rubber „doors“ on the plates are when i take off the oil sump.
btw are you running with 98 or ethanol?
 
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I did the oil baffle install, a messy job doing it just on jack stands in the drive way🫣
I could not find any installation guide from lamspeed and took @Phil1291 s video as a guideline which he thankfully uploaded 👍
for me it was not clear, if I should pre-assemble the parts, or install them one by one. I used blue loctite. Be careful when torquing the bolts, as the parts start to bend a little. after putting the oil pan back and torqued down I heard a pop inside like 1 plate seated against the oil pan. I should probably do a dry fit with the pan fully torqued to probably afjust/bend the plates a little. I guess and hope it solved by itself 😀😇
and boy, the oem rtv sticks as hell, I bent the pan a little while fighting it. the cleaning is a real PITA!
 

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Hey guys, I own a small vendor in the US for the GRC community (555 Engineering).

We did some track testing relating to this issue with 2 cars to get a true pressure comparison with 0W-20 overfill. One car was +.5 qrt overfilled, one was stock fill.

We found the +.5qrt overfill improved the Oil Pressure average but in our experience did not reduce the lowest pressure dropoffs. We are curious what heavier weight oil will do, or baffling.

I list out all the test variables here:
https://www.555engineer.com/blogs/t...-gr-corolla-track-use-oil-pressure-monitoring


Sorry for the cheeseburger units
 

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Hey guys, I own a small vendor in the US for the GRC community (555 Engineering).

We did some track testing relating to this issue with 2 cars to get a true pressure comparison with 0W-20 overfill. One car was +.5 qrt overfilled, one was stock fill.

We found the +.5qrt overfill improved the Oil Pressure average but in our experience did not reduce the lowest pressure dropoffs. We are curious what heavier weight oil will do, or baffling.

I list out all the test variables here:
https://www.555engineer.com/blogs/t...-gr-corolla-track-use-oil-pressure-monitoring


Sorry for the cheeseburger units
Very interesting! Great data.
 
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I would like to share some info on the G16E-GTS oil system for anyone curious or unsure if it needs upgrading. This isn’t a complete guide or anything, just a few data points from 3 GRY (well, more like 2.5) and some thoughts on the matter.

Here’s how the oil pressure vs. RPM looks during regular city driving. The car is a stock 2023 (with an oil pressure/temperature sensor in the oil housing) GR Yaris running Toyota 0W-20 SP ILSAC GF-6 oil. The x axis shows RPM, and the Y - oil pressure in kPa. Colors represent oil temperature, with the legend on the right. You can see how the maximum oil pressure decreases as the oil temperature rises. This is likely because hotter, thinner oil can bleed through a smaller relief valve opening, reaching equilibrium at a lower pressure.

01.webp


The next one shows a scatter plot from early GRY (pre 07/2021, with the oil temp/pressure sensor in the engine block—so slightly lower pressure readings) runs on the track. The car had stock engine power, Nankang AR-1 265 tires, an engine oil cooler (leading to even lower sensor pressure readings), no oil overfill, and no significant weight reduction. And the plot looks quite different.

The dot colors represent oil temperatures ranging from 85°C to 125°C. A 40°C increase in oil temperature leads to a pressure drop from around 350 kPa to 270 kPa. The temperature/pressure "slices" are still clearly visible, but there are more scattered dots of different colors at the lower end, indicating oil pressure drops at varying oil temperatures.

If you look closely at the top of the graph, you’ll notice that the oil pressure drops closely follows the longitudinal acceleration "drops" (braking events). Every longer braking event at ~1G results in a pressure drop of about 150-130 kPa. Interestingly, these drops don’t seem to get worse with increasing oil temperature. On the other hand, lateral acceleration barely affects pressure at all. There are some small ripples in the oil pressure (not clearly visible in the picture due to scale) during ~1.1G corners, but they’re insignificant compared to the impact of longitudinal Gs.

02.webp


In this picture, the dot color represents throttle pedal position. This seems to confirm what I mentioned earlier. As you can see, almost all pressure drops happen off-throttle. The few traces showing on-throttle events (the ones not in blue) are due to the pressure still recovering after the brake pedal was released and throttle applied.

On this GRY oil relief valve seems to open, and oil pressure plateaus quite early at ~2700 rpm, compared to the first picture, where at the same temperature, oil pressure levels off at ~3100 rpm. I’m still trying to figure this out. Could it be caused by the added restriction from the oil cooler, a different relief valve spring, or something else?

03.webp


Different Yaris (pre 07/2021), AR-1 255 tires, engine oil cooler, no overfill, slight power increase (~20hp), and no weight reduction. The oil temperature range in the graph is 90°C to 135°C, with a pressure drop due to the temperature increase going from 380 kPa to 280 kPa. There are even bigger pressure drops under braking, with deltas reaching up to 190 kPa.

Just like in the previous example, higher oil temperatures don’t lead to a greater pressure drop. It might look like the scatter plot is crowded with orange dots in the pressure drop areas, but that’s simply because the sample count in the orange range is the highest.

04.webp


05.webp


What conclusions can we draw from all this?

First, under heavy braking, oil sloshes in the sump significantly, and this isn't affected by oil temperature so isn't affected by viscosity as well. Thicker oil wouldn’t help with that, but baffle plates, an improved sump, or an accusump should. I’ve tried gathering data from cars with baffle plates installed but haven’t had any luck so far. If anyone has logs they’re willing to share, that would be really helpful.

Second, you definitely need a big oil cooler if you plan to track the car, but that’s old news.
It’s also well known that GRY’s oil pressure under load is relatively low. What can we do to improve it?

Thicker oil? Maybe, but I’m unsure how that would impact LSPI prevention.
Using a stiffer relief valve spring or shimming the existing one?
Oil coolers with shorter rows and a higher row count reduce pressure less, but there isn’t much space in the GRY to fit such a cooler.

Shorter cooler pipes, smoother elbows, and a bigger oil filter could improve pressure slightly.

Ditching the standard oil heat exchanger and routing pipes to the cooler from there, using an external oil thermostat instead of a sandwich plate, could help as well.

Curious to hear your comments and insights.
 
Nice data - much appreciated!
I'm running now 25 row series 6 cooler behind right front bumper with AN10 PTFE lines and AN10 banjo fittings. haven't noticed it dropping oil pressure but of course it has an impact. At least oils seems to keep cooler so its the nbr 1 prio. Note that thicker oil flows worse, so it is is actually cooling less. but maybe there's a balance for the application.

Worst pressure I've seen has been with hot car, oil pressure doesnt go much above 2bar even with higher revs. According manual 2bar is the "low limit" so maybe its still ok for the engine. This is on straight line, not in pressure drops in braking as such.
 
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I would like to share some info on the G16E-GTS oil system for anyone curious or unsure if it needs upgrading. This isn’t a complete guide or anything, just a few data points from 3 GRY (well, more like 2.5) and some thoughts on the matter.

Here’s how the oil pressure vs. RPM looks during regular city driving. The car is a stock 2023 (with an oil pressure/temperature sensor in the oil housing) GR Yaris running Toyota 0W-20 SP ILSAC GF-6 oil. The x axis shows RPM, and the Y - oil pressure in kPa. Colors represent oil temperature, with the legend on the right. You can see how the maximum oil pressure decreases as the oil temperature rises. This is likely because hotter, thinner oil can bleed through a smaller relief valve opening, reaching equilibrium at a lower pressure.

View attachment 31468

The next one shows a scatter plot from early GRY (pre 07/2021, with the oil temp/pressure sensor in the engine block—so slightly lower pressure readings) runs on the track. The car had stock engine power, Nankang AR-1 265 tires, an engine oil cooler (leading to even lower sensor pressure readings), no oil overfill, and no significant weight reduction. And the plot looks quite different.

The dot colors represent oil temperatures ranging from 85°C to 125°C. A 40°C increase in oil temperature leads to a pressure drop from around 350 kPa to 270 kPa. The temperature/pressure "slices" are still clearly visible, but there are more scattered dots of different colors at the lower end, indicating oil pressure drops at varying oil temperatures.

If you look closely at the top of the graph, you’ll notice that the oil pressure drops closely follows the longitudinal acceleration "drops" (braking events). Every longer braking event at ~1G results in a pressure drop of about 150-130 kPa. Interestingly, these drops don’t seem to get worse with increasing oil temperature. On the other hand, lateral acceleration barely affects pressure at all. There are some small ripples in the oil pressure (not clearly visible in the picture due to scale) during ~1.1G corners, but they’re insignificant compared to the impact of longitudinal Gs.

View attachment 31469

In this picture, the dot color represents throttle pedal position. This seems to confirm what I mentioned earlier. As you can see, almost all pressure drops happen off-throttle. The few traces showing on-throttle events (the ones not in blue) are due to the pressure still recovering after the brake pedal was released and throttle applied.

On this GRY oil relief valve seems to open, and oil pressure plateaus quite early at ~2700 rpm, compared to the first picture, where at the same temperature, oil pressure levels off at ~3100 rpm. I’m still trying to figure this out. Could it be caused by the added restriction from the oil cooler, a different relief valve spring, or something else?

View attachment 31470

Different Yaris (pre 07/2021), AR-1 255 tires, engine oil cooler, no overfill, slight power increase (~20hp), and no weight reduction. The oil temperature range in the graph is 90°C to 135°C, with a pressure drop due to the temperature increase going from 380 kPa to 280 kPa. There are even bigger pressure drops under braking, with deltas reaching up to 190 kPa.

Just like in the previous example, higher oil temperatures don’t lead to a greater pressure drop. It might look like the scatter plot is crowded with orange dots in the pressure drop areas, but that’s simply because the sample count in the orange range is the highest.

View attachment 31471

View attachment 31472

What conclusions can we draw from all this?

First, under heavy braking, oil sloshes in the sump significantly, and this isn't affected by oil temperature so isn't affected by viscosity as well. Thicker oil wouldn’t help with that, but baffle plates, an improved sump, or an accusump should. I’ve tried gathering data from cars with baffle plates installed but haven’t had any luck so far. If anyone has logs they’re willing to share, that would be really helpful.

Second, you definitely need a big oil cooler if you plan to track the car, but that’s old news.
It’s also well known that GRY’s oil pressure under load is relatively low. What can we do to improve it?

Thicker oil? Maybe, but I’m unsure how that would impact LSPI prevention.
Using a stiffer relief valve spring or shimming the existing one?
Oil coolers with shorter rows and a higher row count reduce pressure less, but there isn’t much space in the GRY to fit such a cooler.

Shorter cooler pipes, smoother elbows, and a bigger oil filter could improve pressure slightly.

Ditching the standard oil heat exchanger and routing pipes to the cooler from there, using an external oil thermostat instead of a sandwich plate, could help as well.

Curious to hear your comments and insights.
hey mate,

If you're interested I can send you the logs from my syvecs (already did a couple of track days with that, tune, couple of mods, oil cooler and baffles).
 
Data is good, but I’m not sure how adding a front mounted oil cooler is gonna make oil pressure better, on the contrary, it will have the opposite effect.

I think the car is fine as it is, cooling wise, cooling can be improved, but not sure the oil cooler is the right choice if going through that route… Toyota in fact normally don’t use oil coolers, but heat exchangers even in racing applications, for a reason.
 
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Data is good, but I’m not sure how adding a front mounted oil cooler is gonna make oil pressure better, on the contrary, it will have the opposite effect.

I think the car is fine as it is, cooling wise, cooling can be improved, but not sure the oil cooler is the right choice if going through that route… Toyota in fact normally don’t use oil coolers, but heat exchangers even in racing applications, for a reason.
Adequacy completely comes down to use case, so yes the car is fine cooling-wise for a belt down your local twisty public road.

Propper oil-water heat exchangers are expensive and in this use-case even more costly as it would be custom seeing nothing is available publicly.

I can't tell if this is a subtle troll lol
 
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Adequacy completely comes down to use case, so yes the car is fine cooling-wise for a belt down your local twisty public road.

Propper oil-water heat exchangers are expensive and in this use-case even more costly as it would be custom seeing nothing is available publicly.

I can't tell if this is a subtle troll lol
Cooling is fine for most of the users out there, including those tracking their cars every now and then… the oil gets to 130 degrees on track, yes, lift off and cool down a lap or two, it´s not a race car.

I wonder how many of those who say the oil cooling isn’t enough, have had the car go into limp mode because of that reason.
 
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Cooling is fine for most of the users out there, including those tracking their cars every now and then… the oil gets to 130 degrees on track, yes, lift off and cool down a lap or two, it´s not a race car.

I wonder how many of those who say the oil cooling isn’t enough, have had the car go into limp mode because of that reason.
Again this is a subjective belief for your use case. Anything above 120 centigrade is poor for my standard and given the concern for LSPI and piston Knock sensitivity, heat is an enemy.

It would appear that you are one to keep your car factory and that is completely fair for your use, however, anyone who is moderately interested in performance drive days, track days and lives in relatively warmer climates would and should be interested in additional thermal management over OEM.

Yes, it is not a race car in OEM form like yours, however, it can be made into one; that is the whole point of a homologation special.
 
Data is good, but I’m not sure how adding a front mounted oil cooler is gonna make oil pressure better, on the contrary, it will have the opposite effect.

I think the car is fine as it is, cooling wise, cooling can be improved, but not sure the oil cooler is the right choice if going through that route… Toyota in fact normally don’t use oil coolers, but heat exchangers even in racing applications, for a reason.
You realise that Toyota added an engine oil cooler with the Facelift?
So even Toyota thinks it needs an Oil Cooler. 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
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Data is good, but I’m not sure how adding a front mounted oil cooler is gonna make oil pressure better, on the contrary, it will have the opposite effect.

I think the car is fine as it is, cooling wise, cooling can be improved, but not sure the oil cooler is the right choice if going through that route… Toyota in fact normally don’t use oil coolers, but heat exchangers even in racing applications, for a reason.
I believe my wording wasn’t clear enough. I didn’t mean to suggest that the oil cooler would increase oil pressure directly. However, having cooler oil in the sump would raise the oil pressure ceiling - the pressure the engine develops before the relief valve begins to open. Based on the graphs above, oil pressure drops by approximately 0.1–0.2 bar for every 10°C increase in oil temperature. In the 90–110°C range, the pressure drop is steeper, around 0.2 bar, but it slows down as the oil gets hotter, dropping about 0.1 bar in the 130°C range.
 
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I believe my wording wasn’t clear enough. I didn’t mean to suggest that the oil cooler would increase oil pressure directly. However, having cooler oil in the sump would raise the oil pressure ceiling - the pressure the engine develops before the relief valve begins to open. Based on the graphs above, oil pressure drops by approximately 0.1–0.2 bar for every 10°C increase in oil temperature. In the 90–110°C range, the pressure drop is steeper, around 0.2 bar, but it slows down as the oil gets hotter, dropping about 0.1 bar in the 130°C range.
The pressure gradient I've seen for oils is steeper than above described - close to 4bar at 75-80'C and little above 2bar at 120'C. So closer to 0.3 bar for every 10'C.
The oil condition affects the pressure reading so newer oils will give you higher pressure as diluted older oil will have lower pressure. Was there a difference in the sensor location for old and newer models ? Wonder what place is better (more accurate) for the pressure reading?

the loss of the oil cooler can be found on the Setrab pages at least for their coolers (column delta P (psi)) , in addition of course the oil lines cause some pressure loosses aswell. but for the heat exhanger cell itself the loss is not that drastic.

note that data is based on higher viscosity oil so with 0w20 or similar lower viscosity oil pressure drop might be less.

Wet Sump Parameters include: oil flow rate, 5gpm; 20/50 engine oil or similar; 130ºF ITD; 60mph airflow, BTU/hr = .2931 x WATTS
Setrab.jpeg
 
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