GR Yaris Are these engines really this fragile?

[tonic]

if you use the car with the fuel that it is not intended to, its not a bad tune, its a poor maintenance and use of the vehicle.
unfortunately in this case the fuel was not in the spec what it supposed to, so safer use higher quality racing fuels.

Octane rating is basically resistance to knock, right? And reaction to knock is something tuners can map.

Take Phil's experience with broken oil squirters as an example — because of knock caused by overheated pistons, the ECU kept pulling timing to the point where the car had "almost no power" according to Phil. Sure, he's running a built engine, and maybe the stronger pistons helped, but it still shows how flexible proper tuning can be.

I don't know the car you're talking about, the circumstances, or how good the tune was, but 0.8 octane difference being the main cause seems a bit off to me. Just my two cents.

 

[Michael Knight]

Octane rating is basically resistance to knock, right? And reaction to knock is something tuners can map.

Take Phil's experience with broken oil squirters as an example — because of knock caused by overheated pistons, the ECU kept pulling timing to the point where the car had "almost no power" according to Phil. Sure, he's running a built engine, and maybe the stronger pistons helped, but it still shows how flexible proper tuning can be.

I don't know the car you're talking about, the circumstances, or how good the tune was, but 0.8 octane difference being the main cause seems a bit off to me. Just my two cents.

I have no idea. Better to leave the discussion to professionals

 

[Phil1291]

Now i feel i have to share my experience as well.
Full disclosure, i didn‘t watched the video.

As some of you know, my car was mapped by ACME and we are in a friendly conversation all the time.

While there obviously are a few engines that got damaged, i personally don‘t know anyone with a damaged engine.
We worked now on over 120-130 GR‘s, mapped like 30 cars of whom a lot race the car and/or attend trackdays regularely.
Some with 360/380/430hp on a stock block.
Not a single engine failure…

A few issues with oil and fuel pressure, a few issues with fault codes or engines that got too hot on track.
But not a single engine failure.

I‘m not saying we‘re the best, our maps are the best or there are no engine failures.

All i‘m saying is, in my experience, if the engines are looked after as they should be, mapped as they should be and are used hard but not abused, engine failures are very, very rare.

And i think the number of blown engines in relation to the number of cars which are at the racetrack regularely is extremly low…

But, if you‘re now afraid your engine is gonna blow up, fear not.
There are a lot of Tuners (us included) which will happily take care of your fears and build you an engine.

 

[Onehp]

And i think the number of blown engines in relation to the number of cars which are at the racetrack regularely is extremly low…

That's the thing, forums and social media statistics aren't real statistics. Numbers can be skewed enormously, like every plane crash gets press but almost no car crash does, so we "feel", completely wrong, that cars are safer...
GRY are cars tracked snd driven hard to a high degree and also have a relative high social media presence, so issues tend towards the airplane case...

 

[Chris_P_Bacon]

Now i feel i have to share my experience as well.
Full disclosure, i didn‘t watched the video.

As some of you know, my car was mapped by ACME and we are in a friendly conversation all the time.

While there obviously are a few engines that got damaged, i personally don‘t know anyone with a damaged engine.
We worked now on over 120-130 GR‘s, mapped like 30 cars of whom a lot race the car and/or attend trackdays regularely.
Some with 360/380/430hp on a stock block.
Not a single engine failure…

A few issues with oil and fuel pressure, a few issues with fault codes or engines that got too hot on track.
But not a single engine failure.

I‘m not saying we‘re the best, our maps are the best or there are no engine failures.

All i‘m saying is, in my experience, if the engines are looked after as they should be, mapped as they should be and are used hard but not abused, engine failures are very, very rare.

And i think the number of blown engines in relation to the number of cars which are at the racetrack regularely is extremly low…

But, if you‘re now afraid your engine is gonna blow up, fear not.
There are a lot of Tuners (us included) which will happily take care of your fears and build you an engine.

These are more sensible stats, thanks Phil.

 

[Burger]

a warranty company's dream video.

 

[SckSqzBngBlo]

Could be people putting in their favourite "heavy duty race" oils as opposed to LSPI healthy oil?

 

[Galerion]

I do find it funny how some people are that easily unsettled.

I have driven my car for almost 4 years now. No problems. Same with many others on here and elsewhere. I bet you yourself never had problems either.
Many cars have been used for track activities for years with proof of it. Still same deal.
And if that isn't enough. Toyota gives you 15 years of warranty on a high performance car.

So where comes the point where you actually trust your own experiences more than potentially made up statements with no proof?

 

[AK10TOY]

Diyman has tuned and tracked his and broken almost everything but the engine is still going strong

I'm not that worried when I mainly drive mine for the early morning weekend thrash about after warming it up,

 

[CerN]

There are about 165 GRYs in Norway. I know about 1 that have had an engine swapped under warranty. There are probably some I don't know about.

There are 20 i30Ns in Norway, and I know about 3 that have had engines swapped under warranty. Percentage wise that's a high number, but you don't see the Internet rave about their engines having a high failure rate.

 

[Michael Knight]

There are 20 i30Ns in Norway, and I know about 3 that have had engines swapped under warranty. Percentage wise that's a high number, but you don't see the Internet rave about their engines having a high failure rate.

OT but this is interesting, didn't know it also had issues. some story here.

 

[GRBadger]

All cars, like any mass produced item built with many parts will have some issues. It’s just that you only hear of the ones that do. Some recent examples are: Civic Type R - gear selection problems, AMG A45 - turbo failures, A110 - fuel pump failures and of course my previous car, Focus RS with its head gasket issues. The proof of a good manufacturer is how well they recognise and address any known faults.

 

[Wubziz]

Hey @Phil1291, thank you for your insight/opinion on this.

May I ask, what kind of oil viscosity you are driving on your GR and what kind of oil viscosity is recommended by ACME?

 

[Phil1291]

Hey @Phil1291, thank you for your insight/opinion on this.

May I ask, what kind of oil viscosity you are driving on your GR and what kind of oil viscosity is recommended by ACME?

We now race with Motul 300V 15W50.

I can recommend that if your car is a pure racecar with a built engine.

Everything else:
OEM Oil recommendations: 0W20.

 

[Wubziz]

Hey Phil, thanks for your answer!

Everything else:
OEM Oil recommendations: 0W20.

Even when driving on the Nürburgring and doing long winter-drifting with the engine being in the high rpm range for a extended amount of time?
The GR Yaris is also my daily.

With 0W20 my oil was at like 120-130°C, with the currently filled in 5W30 its at 110-120°C and I've been thinking about 300V 5W40 or 5W50.

 

[Phil1291]

Hey Phil, thanks for your answer!

Even when driving on the Nürburgring and doing long winter-drifting with the engine being in the high rpm range for a expended amount of time?
The GR Yaris is also my daily.

With 0W20 my oil was at like 120-130°C, with the currently filled in 5W30 its at 110-120°C and I've been thinking about 300V 5W40 or 5W50.

Yes.
Put in an Oil Cooler and you‘re good to go.

 

[Armijs]

I have done almost 5000 km, since August 7, next weekend going on a 2000 km Poland trip, for the first 1500 km inside was the OEM oil, it was fine, was driven gently, since there has been inside the Valvoline C6 0w-20, has been driven as the car should be hard pulls almost daily from like 70-160 km/h where the limit on the roads is mostly 90 km/h, when doing multiple slow car, overtaking, i have not felt the engine be weird, i have not heard the engine sound weird, all of this is just what i have experienced, is purely anecdotal, and have to drive many more km's to have proper conclusions about Mk'2 in particular, at 10000 km i will be going back to OEM oil as certain Toyota changes, atleast in the BALTIC Toyota region have pushed us to do so to the detriment of our clients wallets... But all in all, it is my daily, will probably never see a track in its life, just gets driven aggresively from time to time on the roads. I only push it off course when oil temperature gets over at least 75c, lower than that i am simply comuting, highest i have seen the oil with many accelerations and hard brakings is like 103-105 c ? We shall live and see really.

 

[Wubziz]

Hey @Phil1291 & everyone,

I would kindly like to apologise for asking so many questions but this topic is very eerie to me.

I have seen that we have a vendor page for ravenol in this forum and they recommend the following:

I sadly do not have a lot of knowledge about engine oils in general, but if LSPI seems to be (kind of?) the problem why not go for a 5W30 that, according to ravenol, prevents LSPI while 0W20 only minimizes it?

I would really like to understand why 0W20 is still more preferable than 5W30. I know that the the Toyota chief engineer also said this.
I also read that the ravenol dxg 5W30 is apparently very closely to a 0W20.
Please help a poor soul out

 

[Sekred]

Hey @Phil1291 & everyone,

I would kindly like to apologise for asking so many questions but this topic is very eerie to me.

I have seen that we have a vendor page for ravenol in this forum and they recommend the following:
View attachment 31625

I sadly do not have a lot of knowledge about engine oils in general, but if LSPI seems to be (kind of?) the problem why not go for a 5W30 that, according to ravenol, prevents LSPI while 0W20 only minimizes it?

I would really like to understand why 0W20 is still more preferable than 5W30. I know that the the Toyota chief engineer also said this.
I also read that the ravenol dxg 5W30 is apparently very closely to a 0W20.
Please help a poor soul out

I don't think you can go wrong with either of those oils. The ILSAC GF-6A is the most important part to get right.
I run either 5W-30 or 0W-30 but I live in a hot climate.

 

[tonic]

Hey @Phil1291 & everyone,

I would kindly like to apologise for asking so many questions but this topic is very eerie to me.

I have seen that we have a vendor page for ravenol in this forum and they recommend the following:
View attachment 31625

I sadly do not have a lot of knowledge about engine oils in general, but if LSPI seems to be (kind of?) the problem why not go for a 5W30 that, according to ravenol, prevents LSPI while 0W20 only minimizes it?

I would really like to understand why 0W20 is still more preferable than 5W30. I know that the the Toyota chief engineer also said this.
I also read that the ravenol dxg 5W30 is apparently very closely to a 0W20.
Please help a poor soul out

That's not exactly an easy question, and it's pretty unlikely you'd find a solid answer in regular forums. Maybe some hardcore oil forums like oil-club.de might help. To really tackle it, though, you'd need to read several in-depth studies to form an evidence-based opinion.

That said, there's a 2012 paper by Toyota Motor Corp. (DOI: 10.4271/2012-01-1615) where they tested how different oil parameters affect LSPI. One of the graphs shows that, although PAO base oil at the same viscosity slightly reduced LSPI compared to Group III, using a higher viscosity PAO base oil actually increased LSPI frequency (that's 4cSt vs 8cSt oil viscosity).

All the oils in the study used the same ILSAC GF-5 additive package. I believe Toyota uses Group III base for their 0W-20 SP ILSAC-6A oil, and Ravenol DFE uses PAO.

Yes, this was before the ILSAC GF-6A and API SP standards came out and I’m not sure if these findings still hold up with today’s oil chemistry.