GR86 Vehicle Security

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Emailed as well. It's a good assist, not perfect but I definitely want an alarm. There are so many use cases where it could help. I have great neighbours in a close knit area, it effectiveness in some situations definitely has value
 
Moonballs said:
Emailed as well. It's a good assist, not perfect but I definitely want an alarm. There are so many use cases where it could help. I have great neighbours in a close knit area, it effectiveness in some situations definitely has value
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Received the generic response. Along with this addition:
"Furthermore, please note the specification of the vehicle was not changed after release, however the specification material which was published unfortunately had these errors present."
 
Quite a rapid response to my rebuff from TOL:

"The previous response provided to you was drafted in collaboration with our Customer Relations department, whom we work very closely with on these matters. As such, unfortunately we would not be able to escalate your complaint to their department, as the response they provide you would be exactly the same.

As you are dissatisfied with the outcome and explanation we have provided, we would recommend you contact the Motor Ombudsman as the best course of action. The Motor Ombudsman is a member of the Chartered Trading Standards Institute approved consumer codes scheme and is a provider of Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR), offering conciliation and arbitration. You can contact them via www.themotorombudsman.org or on their advice line 0345 241 3008. Their decision will be legally binding on both Toyota and you, as the consumer.

Please accept my apologies once again for the disappointment this has caused."


It appears that that may be the next step.
 
Excellent. The written equivalent of

1699979225876.webp
 
Moonballs said:
Received the generic response. Along with this addition:
"Furthermore, please note the specification of the vehicle was not changed after release, however the specification material which was published unfortunately had these errors present."
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Might be worth pointing out that their user manual also has errors then, as it specifically references the alarm functionality.
 
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Looks like they have decided to go full combat mode, they really don't want to admit defeat and do a recall do they? (although admitting their error is a good point for us)

Someone mentioned earlier a group letter from us, I would be up for that as a starting point. Anything that might sway their decision to avoid ombudsman/chargeback/S.75 route would be welcome (and is a shot to nothing) but if that doesn't do it then full combat mode it is.
 
Scaramanga said:
I’m not suggesting that owners should accept Toyota’s response, but have a practical question for the group.

In terms of theft prevention, is the immobiliser more valuable than the alarm ? Ie. The immobiliser stops the car from starting but the alarm is merely making noise to deter thieves and alert anyone nearby to an attempted theft?

The reason for my question: Toyota seem to justifying their position based on the insurance grouping, but I suspect premiums will start to increase exponentially if GR86’s become disproportionally targeted by thieves ? (Similar to the problems with Range Rovers, IIRC)
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Practically, I do kind of agree, that car alarms are not really a massive deterrent these days, most people just ignore them. So an immobiliser is more important. My main concern is about the effect on insurance; if it's negligible, then fine, and with premiums jumping massively this year, it might be hard to determine the effect anyway.

That said, I am still a bit miffed it's missing. Not just the principle, but my car sits 10 feet from my front door, and an audible alarm could be the difference between me being able to confront and scare someone off, or not finding out the car has gone until the next morning.

I haven't joined in with emailing Toyota yet, and from all the responses so far, it seems like it would be pointless anyway. Not that it would matter, because even if they offered to retrofit them, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with having the dealer take the car apart to fit it.

It's all left a bit of a sour taste in the mouth, to be honest. But I won't let it spoil my enjoyment of the car. Although I am glad that I made the decision to have the car serviced outside the dealer network - the way I see it, if their response is basically "**** you", then I shall take what little satisfaction I can by not giving them any more money unless necessary.
 
This is from citizen's advice, and the report has been passed on to trading standards.
We understand that the car you purchased was advertised as having an alarm system and an immobiliser but this was not the case when you received the car.

You are now looking for any potential rights you may have and any next steps you should take.

Your rights

Based on the information you have given, you may be protected by the Consumer Rights Act. You will have legal rights if the item you bought is not as described. You won’t have any legal rights if it was damaged by wear and tear, an accident or misuse, or you’ve just changed your mind.

As you bought the item less than 6 months ago, you don’t have to prove who caused the problem. If Toyota Online says it is your fault, they must prove it. It might be wise to gather some evidence of the problem yourself though, in case you want to dispute their evidence later.

You can ask Toyota Online to repair ( fit an alarm system and immobiliser) or replace your car with one that has this options. They shouldn't charge you for this and they should do it as quickly as possible. If they repair or replace your car and further issues persist, you can ask them for a refund. Because you've had the car for less than 6 months, the trader should refund you in full and cannot keep anything for the usage you have had from the item, unless it is a motor vehicle.

If you'd prefer to keep the item, you can ask them for some money back - usually this would be the same amount as it would cost to fix the problem. Contact some other companies to see how much they would charge to fix the problem.

More information on your rights can be found on our website.

As you paid using your credit card and the price was over £100, your credit card company is just as responsible for fixing the problem with the contract as the trader. You can use our template letter to make a claim. If you would like further information on what protection your payment provider can offer, you can visit our website.

Your next steps

We would suggest, if you haven’t done so already, to put your complaint in writing which can be seen as a more formal approach to resolve a dispute with Toyota Online. The Citizens Advice website has template letters available, which you may amend to suit your specific issue or use as a guide. If you complain by email, send it with a read receipt. This can tell you when the email was received and read. If you use webchat, it's a good idea to save a transcript of the conversation. If you complain by post, send the letter using a recorded delivery service which lets you track the letter, and prove it was sent and received.

There's also another way you can solve disagreements without going to court, which is known as 'alternative dispute resolution' (or ‘ADR’) and you should ask the trader if they're willing to use one. Step by step guidance is available on our website.



What we will do

Thank you for taking the time to tell us about this issue. We will share this with Trading Standards to allow them to see how traders are operating their businesses and for their own enforcement purposes. Whilst Trading Standards are unlikely to be able to help resolve this issue on your behalf, if they require further information they will be in touch.
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I did also ask Toyota for the information to make a complaint through them, and received this
Whilst we fully appreciate your wish to make a formal complaint, I can assure you that you have which has been escalated to both my manager and our Customer Relations senior manager to note your feedback but once again we can only advise the same response as we have previously.

However, if this is not a satisfactory response you do have the option to reject the vehicle otherwise.
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For those waiting to see if Toyota is going to change their tune, you might be waiting a while.
 
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Vithar said:
I guess it depends who you bought it from, and if it was a dealership if their advert said it had an alarm.
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Imagine if Toyota representatives were so poorly informed and inconsistent in their communication that information relating to a current used GR86 for sale at a main dealer did not correlate with the messaging we have seen over the last few days.

Imagine such a thing!

Screenshot_20231114-191128.webp


Screenshot_20231114-191111.webp
 
Silver Fox said:
Imagine if Toyota representatives were so poorly informed and inconsistent in their communication that information relating to a current used GR86 for sale at a main dealer did not correlate with the messaging we have seen over the last few days.

Imagine such a thing!
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This is the sort of thing I had In mind. Every autotrader listing has a Thatcham cat 1 alarm listed, and that includes Toyota dealerships.

It'll all automatically get added, but Toyota should be sorting it with Autotrader instead of happily continuing to sell cars using false information.
 
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Vithar said:
This is from citizen's advice, and the report has been passed on to trading standards.



I did also ask Toyota for the information to make a complaint through them, and received this


For those waiting to see if Toyota is going to change their tune, you might be waiting a while.
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I particularly like this part:

“If you'd prefer to keep the item, you can ask them for some money back - usually this would be the same amount as it would cost to fix the problem. Contact some other companies to see how much they would charge to fix the problem.”
 
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Silver Fox said:
Imagine if Toyota representatives were so poorly informed and inconsistent in their communication that information relating to a current used GR86 for sale at a main dealer did not correlate with the messaging we have seen over the last few days.

Imagine such a thing!

View attachment 22274

View attachment 22276
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To prevent any shenanigans I’ve just archived this. It may prove useful for anyone going the route of ombudsman.

 
They keep mentioning customer service managers and the like tell them to FRO and get their legal people to give an official response, this isn't a customer service issue, this is an issue that needs to be addressed and corrected prior to possible legal recourse if their offer is unacceptable. As you can probably gather their attitude is pissing me off, typical bigcorp, we have had your money so FU.
 
Vithar said:
This is the sort of thing I had In mind. Every autotrader listing has a Thatcham cat 1 alarm listed, and that includes Toyota dealerships.

It'll all automatically get added, but Toyota should be sorting it with Autotrader instead of happily continuing to sell cars using false information.
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Likely to be a third-party such as CAP data that provide all the specs to other motor related companies such as websites, leasing companies and even dealer systems.
You'll need to wait for the data company to update their databases and then wait for anyone who uses this data to update systems locally.

Could be weeks, months or never.
 
v8s said:
They keep mentioning customer service managers and the like tell them to FRO and get their legal people to give an official response, this isn't a customer service issue, this is an issue that needs to be addressed and corrected prior to possible legal recourse if their offer is unacceptable. As you can probably gather their attitude is pissing me off, typical bigcorp, we have had your money so FU.
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I’d hope the fact they set precedent offering to retrofit parking sensors (even if this was only for initial batch customers) to rectify the missing option may also damage their cause with respect to the alarm situation.
 
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Only reason I can think they're asking for the mileage is if they're going to agree to let you reject and they want to calculate a reasonable amount to take off the refund to cover your use of the vehicle.

Given The Motor Ombudsman's quoted 6 month wait for action I've also raised a case with Trading Standards. Told them that up to 400 brand new cars could be affected.
 
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