GR Yaris Lower grip tyres discussion.

We'll see soon enough, Valinos at tyre fitters now. In the dry I don't expect them to be as the nordics that are too little grip really (less then half grip in summer temps and quickly ruined), I just want some more slip and rotation that makes the car more fun and adjustable, without feeling/hearing you're killing the tyres and without needing full on coilover suspension to keep inner wheels on the ground and the diffs working...

The label on the Valinos says class D for wet grip so at least a chance of some fun there compared to my previous tyres...

Edit: contrary to previously written, these Ebisu Matsuri are tw360 also like the Greeva 08D but with different rubber blend, giving 20% less grip and 30% longer (drift) life according to my supplier.
 

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I was hoping to get rain before relaying the first impressions of the Valinos, but it seems I missed that bus for some time so gonna put in my first impressions already:

- Feels soft in the sidewall like my winter tyres, maybe even less precise in turn-in, added some toe-in and that fixed that to ok levels of steering feel and immediacy when turning in. Edit: for some reason right front was 0,5bar lower in pressure, now it feels great!
- Audible buzz from the tyre thread but not obnoxiously loud, guessing narrow tyres and relative high pressure (2,7bar) helps. The lower pitch rumbling from our rough roads is remarkably subdued (sidewall again?), so all in all NVH is better then the Asymmetric 6 that also are 17" but 235 with a bit of stretch on 9" wide rims.
- The full depth 8mm thread is quite wide and looks like aquaplaning won't be an issue untill they are well worn...
- They cost 'peanuts', ballpark half of a trackday tyre, 75£ ish converted (but don't know if available in UK).
- Dry handling. There is a lot of give / slip in the sidewall, allowing one to really get to play with rotation and weight transfer in silence. Grip is decently high for normal road use, I don't feel like a public danger (like on nordic winters in the dry hot). Grip is as predicted not so low that just looking at the accelerator pedal sends you in a big drift, I can still put on a proper pace in grip driving. But with suitable provocation, it gets sliding nicely, at which point you will get noticed as the screetch is coming. So full send, it looks like it's possible (I think I scrubbed the tyres in a smoky 1260° 'turn' but can't be 100%) to have sideways fun even in the dry without feeling I'm overly forcing the car/engine/suspension or that I'm instantly murdering the tyres. Just to have the choice is comforting to me :). Will see if I can add more nuance to these observations later.

In summary, at least in the dry this set-up feels fully usuable as a daily, for fast grip driving and also for the occosional full on drift. How they behave in the wet, hopefully not snappy but rather progressive, will decide if this is a keeper.

More philosophically, these are the narrowest rim/tyre combo with big thread blocks I could find that fit over the stock brakes. And also, by design(!), for durability and accesible grip levels in slip, according to some Valino recommendation I saw, for 150hp+ cars. That is, for rwd drift cars while here we have the double of that power and double the number of driven axles... and indeed it seems grip levels are just low enough to tap into that kind of fun. In the dry, it isn't going to get better for the topic here. It makes at least as much sense to use drift tyres for daily use, than to use EV tyres for drift fun.... Now really hoping I will love them in the wet too...
 
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Went for a backroad blast and very pleased. Prior steering feel issue was caused by an underinflated front tyre which I forgot to check (assuming tyre fitter would do all four to the same pressure - not). Now steering feels good and naturally in sync with suspension and also compliance over bumps and sharp edges is fine. Making progress there is really no sensation it has too little grip, I feel I could really push on and it really hangs on in that transition between grip and slip, nothing sudden at all. Just more fun before it goes scary fast and more feeling of control and less fear of taking it way too far (when this car goes off, it's usually a write off...).

Did catch an unannounced rain shower yesterday too but lots of traffic, still what I could feel is again enough grip and not sketchy (ambient around 8°C) (like tyres with outright bad wet grip), and very importantly, no annoying dribbling/loud skipping when sliding (which high wet grip tyres like ps4s and asymmetric 6 tend to do).

Looking good, will edit/add if my impressions change.
 
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Nixkf said:
Looks very rally, same thoughts as Florens really.👍
I do like the concave look of the Protrak one‘s though
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Deciding for me is that one day, when current shocks are worn, I'm gonna look into a supension that potentially raises up the car a bit => Braids fit better...
 
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To op: I remember when people used to fit Road legal semi slick tyres to their fast Fords on our old forum for more fun! :unsure: ...they any good? 😅
 
Kaxe said:
To op: I remember when people used to fit Road legal semi slick tyres to their fast Fords on our old forum for more fun! :unsure: ...they any good? 😅
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If Focus RS mk3 I suppose that's another type of fun.
Myself when owning a 420hp fwd HH was always on the lookout to improve traction without going silly wide and ruin steering. For fun maximum grip, the exact opposite of this topic...
 
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Yesterday i drove the valino greeda 08d on my GR86..

good grip on dry and low grip in wet. Perfect tire for me. Happy with them.
 
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So tried this sport of drifting in the dry. Most drifts I see on OE tyres are first gear, I tried 2nd gear technique. With a clutch kick I can keep it in a drift in almost any corner speed I care to do, in 2nd, nice.
But I can't say I understand this sport. In less then 5 minutes effective drifting, I wore down my tyres 1,5mm. Edges more, one edge down 4mm, luckily they are very square so no big issue. That's otherwise almost a whole season of driving fun of rubber, gone in a blink of an eye. What did I expect, well these tyres are said to be the slowest wearing drift tyres available... still basically spending more time changing tyres then actually driving on them... Not for me.

But at least tyres are "properly scrubbed" now and all the sharp thread edges are gone, thread noise is actually lower now.
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Takeaway so far. A lot of fun these tyres, on smaller slides these tyres are actually quiet. Car feels like a old french hot hatch, plenty of lean and lots of slip angle yet the tyres keep hanging on. Enough dry grip to feel you're pressing on but also with lots of chassis interaction. And the big drifts I'll keep (mostly) for the rain from now on, up to the dry drift experiment they had barely worn.

If however one enjoys massive grip and razor sharp handling feel through the wheel, this is the wrong approach for sure.

For me this approach gives a lot less load, wear, cost, reliability issues and probably headaches and frustration compared to chasing fun/thrills with higher power on 'normal', or even worse if upsized, tyres... And propably a lot safer too, as speeds and risks are lower (and plenty high already, need to keep respect of the laws... judiciary and natural..)...
 
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Always nice to read youre posts.

On dry most tires will not hold up. I also have nothing with the drift scene. To much roadtrips to my tireshop:)

i like my car to handle a bit like a rally gravel car setup on tarmac. Rotate on the brakes and then on throttle a 4wd slide and straight out of the corner. This on a wet road. I stick with nordic winters they slide so lovely on wet roads.

On my GR86 the Valino were great. We had a wet trackday/driftday it was massive fun. Tires look like new:)
 
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Crap tyre on track video.



I do believe the Valinos are a better approach then.
After the 215 Valinos are worn probably gonna go for 235/40 ones. Bit tighter hot dry handling as I'm not really gonna drift drift them in the dry anymore, and in the wet grip won't be much higher.... Been raining here and while not as smooth in transition as nordic winters, once sliding they are easy to manage. And braking is still decent contrary to said Nordics...
 
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Just an update. In hot ambients the 215/45 on my 7" wide winter rims are getting a bit too vague even for me even with max toe before it starts scrubbing. After consideration and discussion with @AdvEvo and Valino reseller I will move to 235/40R17 on 9" wide summer rims (Ebisu Matsuri only come in two 17" sizes and one 265 18"). A little bit stretch, bit lower aspect /40 and bit higher load rating will all help put the feedback back. Bit higher dry grip and probably about same wet grip. Another alternative would be 8" wide rims but already have 9" rims so...

This will be my 5th summer tyre setup in effectively less then one year road driving on summers😜, hope I hit home this time round⛳
 
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Onehp said:
Bit higher dry grip and probably about same wet grip. Another alternative would be 8" wide rims but already have 9" rims so...
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Bit more on moving to 235 which may seem counter intuitive, have time to muse as they are out of stock.... These tyres are specifically designed to slide and to not vary grip much with temperature and tyre pressure. Which should also mean it doesn't vary much with width! And if it varies with temperature, cold means less grip. On street wider tyres usually means colder. So all in all wider doesn't necessarily mean higher grip here, we'll see. But it does mean more rubber to wear....

Was bit concerned if Valinos Greeva/Ebisu Matsuri sit well on 9", found these ads with a Tokyo vpn.

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Last one is 215/45 on 8" and 235/40 on 9" and the latter seems to sit better. So skipping the former and confirmed I'm trying 235.

Meanwhile enjoying the 215, while tyre pressure doesn't affect grip much it does affect handling feel on my narrow 7J wide rims, 2,6bar seems to be sweetspot on these. Already half worn now...
 
Forgot to update this thread. Rocking the 235 Valinos on 9J rims now some time in the Greeva 08D variety with some more dry grip. Tyre bit too stretched to my liking, a narrow 235 for sure, but tyre doesn't feel super direct still so it's probably needed for some added feedback over the 205 on 7J from above. Good blend of dry grip speed and some mobility for fun, and the big difference to normal proper sport tyres, they slide very nicely in the wet, thus giving that winter driving thrill without having to wait half a year... Does get exciting/scetchy/scary if trying to go fast in the rain, so definitely not for beginners and quite far from the sure footed wet progress otherwise hailed for this car. But I like it that way.

Thread noise quite bad but still reasonable comfortable tyre being 17".
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