Has anyone got any real world experience with these? 168% more surface area, 71% increase in volume and utilises the stock diameter pipe work. Not cheap but if it’s good then maybe.
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GR Yaris Litchfield motors intercooler
- Thread starter GJR
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Michael Knight
Totally Hooked
Personally not a fan of replacing the crash bar. The OEM one is made from very strong steel and designed to take crash forces and deform in a certain way.... As for IC function, for sure better then OEM, for actual performance between peers only independant testing can give definitive answers on pressure drop and cooling performance. Competitor full height ICs are Airtec stage 3 (IC becomes crash bar) and Swedish do88 (crash bar moved forward) afaik.
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It is very expensive and no data. I am also looking at the Pro Alloy one. Anyone know much about those? Talk of lag with the Wagner puts me off
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It’s just a road car but I want it to be OEM plus if you like. I have a eventuri intake with DO88 turbo intake pipe, whifbitz titanium GPF back exhaust and a remap from Litchfield. Dyno graph below (that had the forge intake) note the ambient temps though it was a cold day. Other mods are not performance related. I kept the gpf after reading your input on that. Heat level? As in climate…..uk so mild and wet! I drive normally most of the time will a bit of fun thrown in for a few corners. The roads are a bit busy and the car at the back of a queue seems to be my Toyota GR Yaris
I am now going to have the updated ECUTEK software installed by Litchfield. More features and more mapping options for them to refine it better. I think I’ll stop there because it starts to get really expensive and the Mrs does not want me to turn it into a race car. More the best road car it can be. Appreciate the help. Guy
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Sekred
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- Dec 18, 2021
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The IAT on a dyno says nothing much about real life IAT and much less again about the temperature of the air entering the engine, after passing the turbo compressor and the IC. I have the Forge intake and as long as the car hasn't been heat soaked, IATs are good. But that says nothing about IC cooling or the temperature of air entering the engine.
A larger aftermarket IC will see a hp gain of roughly 5-10hp due to better flow at your power level, upwards 20 if the piping is changed too, very rough ballpark. Unfortunately we don't have independant testing to really distinguish between makes, from other platforms I know differences can be big despite similar looking coolers, Sekred link can give more clues if you can inspect a ICs from closer up. But at least Wagner and do88 publish some numbers, the former is better for reduced pressure loss, the latter for cooling iirc. Power gains are mostly because the OEM IC + piping is quite restrictive especially as power levels rise, making the turbo work harder and zap more power. At the same time, the larger volumes mean more lag. All this is without considering cooling performance, differences can become bigger if temps go too high. To gauge that you would need to log CACT =Charge Temperature, which is the temperature of the air entering the engine. If it sits much higher then ambient in your driving, you're losing performance, as less oxygen can enter the engine when the charge air is hotter. But if weather is mild and load not too high and speed is good, it's possible that the OEM IC cools adequately.
It's all a balance and ultimately it's up to you if feel high charge temps are an issue which causes lag by itself, warranting an aftermarket IC that in principle has more lag, but not when it keeps the charge cool vs a heat soaked OEM IC....
Good link @Sekred, ok didn't read all but what I did and the section on lag is a lot better then I've seen elsewhere. Key takeway is the flow speed is governed by engine displacement and system volume, not boost. So a smaller displacement engine is more affected by intercooler system volume at similar power levels and cooling requirements. But as said IF it helps combat heat soak with the OEM setup, it kinds levels out, I do think a do88 should be a bit better then say a Wagner in that respect (less volume, more cooling area) as one could deduct from their self-published numbers, but really needs to be confirmed by a proper blind test, as also pressure drop affects lag to degree (more loss means turbo needs to spin higher rpm for same boost), and then I wonder if the difference is noticeable in practice...
From my experience swapping IC and piping, I did clearly notice more lag in low revs, but in high revs I notice there is much less rushing of air and easier power delivery, at which point lag is not an issue, and less heat issues when ambients are high. That said it still takes time to cool (cact to approach ambient) once heat soaked, a local owner with do88 reports cact going down much faster but again not independently verified. But you can guess which one I would get this time around, with OE pipes...
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Thank you. I am quite tempted by the DO88. You can get it with or without the bigger pipes too.
Michael Knight
Totally Hooked
Between upgrade IC the differences are small for sure, but I've also seen you are a very smooth driver so maybe you aren't so sensitive to lag?
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Michael Knight
Totally Hooked
I think weldspeed intake helps in response as it picks up rather nicely already from mid throttle even when off boost. but should test cars back to back to feel the delay.
Thanks. It’s quite hard to work out what’s best suited. It looks like the Wagner has less pressure drop at 65% less vs the DO88 at about 52%. The flow rates are a bit beyond me to work out as one is in grams per second and the other CFM. A few unknown variables there
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I was hoping you could not resist 
I had a look, the g/s is a bit odd as that would depend on boost which does not influence volume flow, but we can take it at face value as a relative comparison. And do88 publishes both without and with pipes, and there the drop is roughly 50% and 45% lower respectivelyat relevant CFM around 180 where peak power is made (CFM at IC level does not change with boost, it only changes pre-turbo where the air instead is lower then atmospheric pressure).
It is not suprising that a large volume square section Wagner has a lower drop then and elongated/flattened section do88. On the other hand, the do88 should be superior for cooling roughly the double surface area.
From below graphs, if I did it again* (road car not very high speeds) I would probably skip the pipes and go for the cooling of the do88
Without pipes
With pipes
*do88 weren't available when I did my IC
To be fair to the thread title, the Litchfield one, if all is good, should be quite similar, with my reservation on replacing the crash bar which for me is not something I like, but neither is moving it forward ideal either so...
Litchfield development blog: https://www.litchfieldmotors.com/blog/toyota-gr-yaris-cooling/
Litchfield development blog: https://www.litchfieldmotors.com/blog/toyota-gr-yaris-cooling/
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Michael Knight
Totally Hooked
In ideal tuning world, GR would be a size of a US Muscle truck to give for genuine GR enthusiast a well founded and injury free access to every component that one might need to adjust or modify. GR is very neatly packaged, but oh boy there is seldom any space to put those hands or tools.. Likely the service approach should be completely different - drop off subframe and engine for every thing. sorry for friday OT.
