GR Yaris (Gen 2) GR Yaris Mk2 (MY2024->)

Similar here, Cayman is 220k+, GRY is $60 ish and CTR is $73k+.

I cross shopped the i30N, GRY, CTR and Focus RS (used). I am not 12 years old anymore so the CTR fell off the list quickly. Son just bought an i30N. It is every bit as good as I expected it to be but not in the same performance bracket.
 
While the rising prices have shifted things a bit, the GR Yaris still has real no competition at its price point.
For one the platform is highly modifiable. Some use it as their daily, some go rallying with it, some turn it into absolute track weapons and others turn it into a drag racer. The car can do it all. It's meant to be your canvas and I remember Akio Toyoda saying that pretty much in a video of his. As a package it's outstanding.

I certainly know how it is to be a petrolhead. There is so much stuff out there that is interesting and I find myself looking at things. I recently was thinking about getting a GR86 if some you have seen that thread on here. That car does a few things better than a Yaris but it also does a few things worse. The same is true for a CTR, a Cayman, a M2, a Golf R or a Mustang or whatever other car you can imagine. All great cars in their own right but as a complete package they aren't quite the same.

For me personally only something like a Nissan GT-R would an upgrade overall. Most other things Im interested in would be side-grades actually since I would trade some things for others.
Maybe they are useless in bad weather, maybe they only have two seats and no cargo space, maybe they are gas guzzlers, maybe they are unreliable and have very expensive maintenance, maybe they are from a brand I simply dislike, maybe they have no third-party support in terms of parts and mods and so on and on and on.
That's great if you truly know what you want and want to focus and specialize on that or you are wealthy enough and can simply buy multiple cars. I ain't that person though and I imagine Im not alone.
 
Similar here, Cayman is 220k+, GRY is $60 ish and CTR is $73k+.

I cross shopped the i30N, GRY, CTR and Focus RS (used). I am not 12 years old anymore so the CTR fell off the list quickly. Son just bought an i30N. It is every bit as good as I expected it to be but not in the same performance bracket.
That's a big difference compared to here.
GRY is 50k, CTR is 60k.
Base 718 Cayman is 50k and GT4 is 100k
 
If you want a Porsche you better get your order in soon. They have announced the discontinuation of petrol Boxster and Cayman for next year.
You already can't order one since last year. Mine was total loss, they looked in the system and the only one that I could still order was the 4.0 GTS (which has way higher taxes). Al production slots have been taken for a while now.
 
If you want a Porsche you better get your order in soon. They have announced the discontinuation of petrol Boxster and Cayman for next year.

Yeah they're really leaning in. Surprising.

Macan is already EV only. SavageGeese did a good review on it.



I imagine the price of ICE Porsche will go up considerably, and many of the more special models were already selling above list..
 
Here is my two cents about what I know from direct experiences and clearly from my personal point of view.
I have quite an history about special cars (Kadett 16V, Celica GT-Four ST205, Impreza Solberg, Nissan GT-R, Focus RS, some days with a CTR, Fiesta ST and GRY among the many), but always living on a budget, that meaning that luckily I never felt the urge to buy something very expensive (that I could not afford), but I mostly liked the pleasure of driving, and the chance to daily use my car.
Spoiler alert: the GRY wins hands down among these all these cars, in my opinion, and by quite far.
What I feel once I drive this car is that it has no competitor at all, and it stands in a niche of its own.
It makes no sense making comparisons based upon price and specs with other cars because the main difference with the others is that it has been built for a different use than ordinary cars.
It's like a Porsche GT3 in my opinion, they are on another league, and no other car can give you that "special" feeling that stamps a long-time smile on your face once you turn it on, and it stays for very long even after you turned it off.
This never happened to me in this apparent way with every other car I had, and this in my opinion has no price at all.
And this is really dangerous to my wallet, because for having something like a GRY I'd be able to ruin my finances forever.
I'd buy it even if I were living in France, to say it all.
How to explain the "special feeling"?
It's not easy, but maybe it's the way this car has every thing oversized for its use, like brakes, the engine power, the overall lightness, the agility, the quickness with answering drivers inputs, the sensation that if you use it properly it will do every thing you ask it to do, and exactly in the way you need it to do.
Maybe in a single sentence is the total trust between the car and the driver that you reach very quickly. I never tasted something like this in any other car I had.
So it has no price to me, and when I start reading comparisons with other cars, I lose my focus immediately on what I'm reading.
One few words abut the CTR, and generally about 2WD cars.
I had many of them, the last one being my fantastic Fiesta ST3 Mk8.
I can't stand car magazines anytime they declare "the best ever hot hatch" by judging cars only in ideal weather conditions (that we find for very limited time within our life with a car) or worst on perfectly dry tracks.
I really started enjoying my sports car once I bought my first AWD car, because I finally stopped having my usual dose of freaking annoyances (wheels skidding and clutch management) and even scares anytime the weather or the road conditions were not perfectly neat.
We don't live in a perfect world, and a sports car has to be judged in the mixed conditions it will face in real life.
I saw too many tests of CTR, describing it as the best hot hatch even for any possible future, after driving it only on a neat and dry tracks.
I drove one CTR for some days, courtesy of one friend of mine, and while it's sure fantastic on dry perfect tarmac, and better than the GRY of course, but once the road is a bit humid, or worse, the usual nightmares come to life, and all its great performance is almost destroyed by managing the car in an adverse environment.
Clearly this doesn't happen with a GRY, where you can enjoy your car for most of weather conditions, and sometimes the bad weather gives you the best chances to have fun.
For these reasons, a CTR will never be the best hot hatch (or sports car) to me, and for these same reasons, I'm starting caressing the idea of replacing my beloved Fiesta ST with an auto-GRY, someday... Hope my dear Fiesta is not listening right now! 😬
 
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Toyota have started using the MK2 in the Japanese Rally Championship (not rally1 or rally2 spec) Rally4 style.

IMG_2414.webp
IMG_2411.webp
 
How to explain the "special feeling"?
It's not easy, but maybe it's the way this car has every thing oversized for its use, like brakes, the engine power, the overall lightness, the agility, the quickness with answering drivers inputs, the sensation that if you use it properly it will do every thing you ask it to do, and exactly in the way you need it to do.
Maybe in a single sentence is the total trust between the car and the driver that you reach very quickly. I never tasted something like this in any other car I had.

This is it for me I think, you describe it well.
 
I like this undertray

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Anyone know a similar product for the Mk1?
 
Here is my two cents about what I know from direct experiences and clearly from my personal point of view.
I have quite an history about special cars (Kadett 16V, Celica GT-Four ST205, Impreza Solberg, Nissan GT-R, Focus RS, some days with a CTR, Fiesta ST and GRY among the many), but always living on a budget, that meaning that luckily I never felt the urge to buy something very expensive (that I could not afford), but I mostly liked the pleasure of driving, and the chance to daily use my car.
Spoiler alert: the GRY wins hands down among these all these cars, in my opinion, and by quite far.
What I feel once I drive this car is that it has no competitor at all, and it stands in a niche of its own.
It makes no sense making comparisons based upon price and specs with other cars because the main difference with the others is that it has been built for a different use than ordinary cars.
It's like a Porsche GT3 in my opinion, they are on another league, and no other car can give you that "special" feeling that stamps a long-time smile on your face once you turn it on, and it stays for very long even after you turned it off.
This never happened to me in this apparent way with every other car I had, and this in my opinion has no price at all.
And this is really dangerous to my wallet, because for having something like a GRY I'd be able to ruin my finances forever.
I'd buy it even if I were living in France, to say it all.
How to explain the "special feeling"?
It's not easy, but maybe it's the way this car has every thing oversized for its use, like brakes, the engine power, the overall lightness, the agility, the quickness with answering drivers inputs, the sensation that if you use it properly it will do every thing you ask it to do, and exactly in the way you need it to do.
Maybe in a single sentence is the total trust between the car and the driver that you reach very quickly. I never tasted something like this in any other car I had.
So it has no price to me, and when I start reading comparisons with other cars, I lose my focus immediately on what I'm reading.
One few words abut the CTR, and generally about 2WD cars.
I had many of them, the last one being my fantastic Fiesta ST3 Mk8.
I can't stand car magazines anytime they declare "the best ever hot hatch" by judging cars only in ideal weather conditions (that we find for very limited time within our life with a car) or worst on perfectly dry tracks.
I really started enjoying my sports car once I bought my first AWD car, because I finally stopped having my usual dose of freaking annoyances (wheels skidding and clutch management) and even scares anytime the weather or the road conditions were not perfectly neat.
We don't live in a perfect world, and a sports car has to be judged in the mixed conditions it will face in real life.
I saw too many tests of CTR, describing it as the best hot hatch even for any possible future, after driving it only on a neat and dry tracks.
I drove one CTR for some days, courtesy of one friend of mine, and while it's sure fantastic on dry perfect tarmac, and better than the GRY of course, but once the road is a bit humid, or worse, the usual nightmares come to life, and all its great performance is almost destroyed by managing the car in an adverse environment.
Clearly this doesn't happen with a GRY, where you can enjoy your car for most of weather conditions, and sometimes the bad weather gives you the best chances to have fun.
For these reasons, a CTR will never be the best hot hatch (or sports car) to me, and for these same reasons, I'm starting caressing the idea of replacing my beloved Fiesta ST with an auto-GRY, someday... Hope my dear Fiesta is not listening right now! 😬
I agree completely, that is precisely the reason why i like the Focus ST i had really only as a summer car, in the winter, all that power was really useless, the Volvo XC60 automatic i had after the Focus ST i therefore enjoyed overall much more as we do get a lot of snow here usually and often we have snow from November till April. That is why the Yaris i am waiting for is like the epitome of fun all year long.
 
Here is my two cents about what I know from direct experiences and clearly from my personal point of view.
I have quite an history about special cars (Kadett 16V, Celica GT-Four ST205, Impreza Solberg, Nissan GT-R, Focus RS, some days with a CTR, Fiesta ST and GRY among the many), but always living on a budget, that meaning that luckily I never felt the urge to buy something very expensive (that I could not afford), but I mostly liked the pleasure of driving, and the chance to daily use my car.
Spoiler alert: the GRY wins hands down among these all these cars, in my opinion, and by quite far.
What I feel once I drive this car is that it has no competitor at all, and it stands in a niche of its own.
It makes no sense making comparisons based upon price and specs with other cars because the main difference with the others is that it has been built for a different use than ordinary cars.
It's like a Porsche GT3 in my opinion, they are on another league, and no other car can give you that "special" feeling that stamps a long-time smile on your face once you turn it on, and it stays for very long even after you turned it off.
This never happened to me in this apparent way with every other car I had, and this in my opinion has no price at all.
And this is really dangerous to my wallet, because for having something like a GRY I'd be able to ruin my finances forever.
I'd buy it even if I were living in France, to say it all.
How to explain the "special feeling"?
It's not easy, but maybe it's the way this car has every thing oversized for its use, like brakes, the engine power, the overall lightness, the agility, the quickness with answering drivers inputs, the sensation that if you use it properly it will do every thing you ask it to do, and exactly in the way you need it to do.
Maybe in a single sentence is the total trust between the car and the driver that you reach very quickly. I never tasted something like this in any other car I had.
So it has no price to me, and when I start reading comparisons with other cars, I lose my focus immediately on what I'm reading.
One few words abut the CTR, and generally about 2WD cars.
I had many of them, the last one being my fantastic Fiesta ST3 Mk8.
I can't stand car magazines anytime they declare "the best ever hot hatch" by judging cars only in ideal weather conditions (that we find for very limited time within our life with a car) or worst on perfectly dry tracks.
I really started enjoying my sports car once I bought my first AWD car, because I finally stopped having my usual dose of freaking annoyances (wheels skidding and clutch management) and even scares anytime the weather or the road conditions were not perfectly neat.
We don't live in a perfect world, and a sports car has to be judged in the mixed conditions it will face in real life.
I saw too many tests of CTR, describing it as the best hot hatch even for any possible future, after driving it only on a neat and dry tracks.
I drove one CTR for some days, courtesy of one friend of mine, and while it's sure fantastic on dry perfect tarmac, and better than the GRY of course, but once the road is a bit humid, or worse, the usual nightmares come to life, and all its great performance is almost destroyed by managing the car in an adverse environment.
Clearly this doesn't happen with a GRY, where you can enjoy your car for most of weather conditions, and sometimes the bad weather gives you the best chances to have fun.
For these reasons, a CTR will never be the best hot hatch (or sports car) to me, and for these same reasons, I'm starting caressing the idea of replacing my beloved Fiesta ST with an auto-GRY, someday... Hope my dear Fiesta is not listening right now! 😬

It sounds like your only criterion for determining which car is better is its ability to handle spirited driving in inclement weather. If that’s the case, then yes, a GRY is probably the best car out there. But we don’t all live in climates with such weather.

Has anyone here actually driven the new FL5 Civic Type R? If so, there's no way anyone could claim it doesn't outperform the GR Yaris in nearly every aspect, except for AWD performance in bad weather.

The FL5 handles better, feels more agile, has sharper and more communicative steering, and a gearbox that feels worlds more precise. The interior is twice as roomy, the front bolstered seats are superior, and the overall look and feel of the interior is a significant step up. Despite being FWD, the CTR chassis is sublime, making it easy to put down power. And, again, in many markets, it’s essentially the same price as a GRY.

The reviews you’ve seen aren’t wrong - they’re all incredibly positive for a reason. Since you mentioned a GT3, I can tell you from experience that the new CTR is the closest thing to a Porsche GT3 in its price range in terms of precision and sharpness. In that regard, the GRY doesn’t even come close.

If anyone has doubts, go test drive one. And no, IMO the FK8 doesn’t feel as sharp and well-sorted as the FL5.
 
It sounds like your only criterion for determining which car is better is its ability to handle spirited driving in inclement weather. If that’s the case, then yes, a GRY is probably the best car out there. But we don’t all live in climates with such weather.

Has anyone here actually driven the new FL5 Civic Type R? If so, there's no way anyone could claim it doesn't outperform the GR Yaris in nearly every aspect, except for AWD performance in bad weather.

The FL5 handles better, feels more agile, has sharper and more communicative steering, and a gearbox that feels worlds more precise. The interior is twice as roomy, the front bolstered seats are superior, and the overall look and feel of the interior is a significant step up. Despite being FWD, the CTR chassis is sublime, making it easy to put down power. And, again, in many markets, it’s essentially the same price as a GRY.

The reviews you’ve seen aren’t wrong - they’re all incredibly positive for a reason. Since you mentioned a GT3, I can tell you from experience that the new CTR is the closest thing to a Porsche GT3 in its price range in terms of precision and sharpness. In that regard, the GRY doesn’t even come close.

If anyone has doubts, go test drive one. And no, IMO the FK8 doesn’t feel as sharp and well-sorted as the FL5.
The CTR is great for a FWD, but it's also 65500€.
The competition in that price point in Belgium:
A stock-model of the BMW M2 and a brand new Z4 M40i
Low-milage Porsche 718 GTS
A low-milage Lotus Elise 240 Final Edition and low-milage Elise Cup 250

All 4 examples above are WAY closer to a GT3 than a CTR will ever be. But the CTR is the best handling FWD car you will find (with a pretty big margin).
 
It sounds like your only criterion for determining which car is better is its ability to handle spirited driving in inclement weather. If that’s the case, then yes, a GRY is probably the best car out there. But we don’t all live in climates with such weather.

Has anyone here actually driven the new FL5 Civic Type R? If so, there's no way anyone could claim it doesn't outperform the GR Yaris in nearly every aspect, except for AWD performance in bad weather.

The FL5 handles better, feels more agile, has sharper and more communicative steering, and a gearbox that feels worlds more precise. The interior is twice as roomy, the front bolstered seats are superior, and the overall look and feel of the interior is a significant step up. Despite being FWD, the CTR chassis is sublime, making it easy to put down power. And, again, in many markets, it’s essentially the same price as a GRY.

The reviews you’ve seen aren’t wrong - they’re all incredibly positive for a reason. Since you mentioned a GT3, I can tell you from experience that the new CTR is the closest thing to a Porsche GT3 in its price range in terms of precision and sharpness. In that regard, the GRY doesn’t even come close.

If anyone has doubts, go test drive one. And no, IMO the FK8 doesn’t feel as sharp and well-sorted as the FL5.
And yet…it’s less fun to drive on track than a Focus ST.


Funny things, opinions, your own feels like the objective truth, just as everyone else’s does to them.

Not everyone wants a massive front wheel drive saloon, I certainly don’t, so the CTR is not even on my radar, despite having owned and loved Honda Type R (Integra DC-2, not massive and a coupe).
 
And yet…it’s less fun to drive on track than a Focus ST.


Funny things, opinions, your own feels like the objective truth, just as everyone else’s does to them.

Not everyone wants a massive front wheel drive saloon, I certainly don’t, so the CTR is not even on my radar, despite having owned and loved Honda Type R (Integra DC-2, not massive and a
 
The Honda may be faster and better in many respects than a GRY. Ditto for Porsche GT3, Ferrari wotever gt and others. For me the last Civic I would want was the one b4 the one b4 the latest one, ie 300bhp turbo and still quite small. The latest iteration looks similar in size to my MB Eclass and for that reason alone is excluded. Despite appearances the GRY is not a tiny car but it does the compact hatch vibe better than anything else I would likely want. Is the next civic going to be the size of an MB S class? I really could not care less as it already resides in the 'I do not want it because it s too big class. '
 
…., and no other car can give you that "special" feeling that stamps a long-time smile on your face once you turn it on, and it stays for very long even after you turned it off.
This never happened to me in this apparent way with every other car I had, and this in my opinion has no price at all.
Exactly this.
 
The Honda may be faster and better in many respects than a GRY. Ditto for Porsche GT3, Ferrari wotever gt and others. For me the last Civic I would want was the one b4 the one b4 the latest one, ie 300bhp turbo and still quite small. The latest iteration looks similar in size to my MB Eclass and for that reason alone is excluded. Despite appearances the GRY is not a tiny car but it does the compact hatch vibe better than anything else I would likely want. Is the next civic going to be the size of an MB S class? I really could not care less as it already resides in the 'I do not want it because it s too big class. '

Size is relative, and debating it seems increasingly outdated. Even though the CTR is bigger than a GRY, it's closer in size to a G80 M3, yet it's still 300 kg lighter. Typically, larger cars feel less nimble than their smaller counterparts, but that's not the case here.

There seems to be a lot of undue criticism for the CTR here. It deserves recognition for what it is - an exceptionally capable car that outperforms the GRY in terms of raw performance. Of course, it might not suit everyone's taste, but I suspect many of its critics haven't actually driven one.

It's also not very constructive to compare it to older Civics or the DC2 - cars from a different era. Similarly, one could argue the GRY feels too bulky and lacks the raw, engaging drive of classics like the MR2 or AE86 Trueno.

There's a lot of bias, likely because this is a GRY forum lol
 
The CTR is great for a FWD, but it's also 65500€.
The competition in that price point in Belgium:
A stock-model of the BMW M2 and a brand new Z4 M40i
Low-milage Porsche 718 GTS
A low-milage Lotus Elise 240 Final Edition and low-milage Elise Cup 250

All 4 examples above are WAY closer to a GT3 than a CTR will ever be. But the CTR is the best handling FWD car you will find (with a pretty big margin).
Latest CTR starting here at 79.4k€ - crazy money for a Civic.. whereas old CTRs are cheaper than in Germany - should maybe get one - would make a nice garage with a GR
 
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The CTR is great for a FWD, but it's also 65500€.
The competition in that price point in Belgium:
A stock-model of the BMW M2 and a brand new Z4 M40i
Low-milage Porsche 718 GTS
A low-milage Lotus Elise 240 Final Edition and low-milage Elise Cup 250

All 4 examples above are WAY closer to a GT3 than a CTR will ever be. But the CTR is the best handling FWD car you will find (with a pretty big margin).

Again, it's a very relative comparison. In some parts of Europe, the CTR is expensive for no apparent reason. However, in countries like Japan and the USA, it's a steal at roughly 42k euros equivalent. At this price point, it faces no real competition and is still far cheaper than the new M2 and anything else you've mentioned.
 
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