GR Yaris (Gen 2) GR Yaris Mk2 (MY2024->)

sandervdw said:
Most of those reviews about the auto were in the Finland review. Where they also state that they remained in second, but that the auto makes it easier to concentrate on the steering (which is true, in difficult conditions the auto will be better).
Same goes for track use, it's just easier to drive fast on track with an auto.

But this car is built for b-roads and rally stages, which means the joy if playing with the clutch etc is what it's all about.
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And thats a huuuuge point. Its "easier" to drive.
I was convinced that the clientele that bought a rally homologation special didn't want exactly this point. That the driving experience is more important to these people than an “easy to drive” feeling. As already mentioned, once you've driven a Tesla performance model, you no longer want a boring, poorly shifting automatic. Especially not in a “rally midget”.

Always just one person's perspective.

But I already did that when the dual clutch transmission came out on the Evo. I was so happy and excited and ordered one straight away. 6 months later, I cried for my manual transmission. Don't get me wrong, the DKG was very good in the Evo. But it was a shitty feeling in this platform.
 
Another vote for Auto.

Having had decades of experience driving manual performance cars and covered 100K’s miles in them, I’m quite taken by the latest automatic transmissions. In the past I would avoid automatics, not least because most performance cars, that were of interested to me, were only available with a manual gearbox. The latest (flappy) Paddle Shifter autos are amazing in comparison.

I’m just grateful Toyota produce a great car with a choice of gearbox.(y)
 
Manual!

I have also a PDK GT4RS but those shifts are fast and hard. It works in that car.

In my Daily BMW X1 i don t care if it has a slushy automatic gearbox but in a fun car only pdk, dkg or Manual.
 
AdvEvo said:
Manual!

I have also a PDK GT4RS but those shifts are fast and hard. It works in that car.

In my Daily BMW X1 i don t care if it has a slushy automatic gearbox but in a fun car only pdk, dkg or Manual.
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Totally agree. I had dct in the Ms and it was good playing and on the track but not so much for commuting in stop start traffic. The pdk in the gt2 and gt3 was good too. Had a conventional auto in the commode gts and it was suitable but even tuned it was at best vague.
 
Triggaaar said:
Aren't pdk and dkg simply Porsche & BMW's versions of double clutch? Do no other manufacturer make good automatic gearboxes?
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The ZF8 is supposedly a very good "classic" automatic box. Other manufacturers also build some very competent double clutch gearboxes.
At this point it's purely a matter of preference, the automatics / double clutches in performance cars will enable you to put down faster laptimes etc.
The PDK is supposedly one of the best feeling double clutch solutions out there, which is why people seem to be putting it on a pedestal (can't say I've tried one personally - certainly wouldn't mind trying it out though :D)..
 
It's all about feeling/ feedback. If an autobox shifts instantly and hard, it's good. But the slightest delay, inconsistent behavior and/or auto up/downshifts can really kill the feeling of being in control. Very few auto boxes are on par with a true sequential racing gearbox.
 
Florens said:
The ZF8 is supposedly a very good "classic" automatic box. Other manufacturers also build some very competent double clutch gearboxes.
At this point it's purely a matter of preference, the automatics / double clutches in performance cars will enable you to put down faster laptimes etc.
The PDK is supposedly one of the best feeling double clutch solutions out there, which is why people seem to be putting it on a pedestal (can't say I've tried one personally - certainly wouldn't mind trying it out though :D)..
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The ZF8 is the gearbox BMW now uses everywhere, but before BMW put a DCT in the M-models. I've tried an M4 with the DCT and the new one with the ZF, and the ZF is better. In the Porsche, I had the PDK and it is indeed a very good automatic because it seems to "know" which gear it needs to be in. You can do trackdays with the car in automatic mode, and it will shift at the same spots you would shift. Also the reaction the the pedals (as long as you want to do something logical) is much faster than with the ZF.

But, in all fairness. My iX3 doesn't have any gearshifts (obviously) and that feels way quicker than it actually is, just because it doesn't need gear changes.
 
I have raced a bmw M235i official bmw motorsport car with a ZF automatic with motorsport software.

This is nowhere near a seq box or pdk or dct. I would never buy an M car or fun car or racecar with an automatic gearbox. Downshifts are so slow.
 
AdvEvo said:
I have raced a bmw M235i official bmw motorsport car with a ZF automatic with motorsport software.

This is nowhere near a seq box or pdk or dct. I would never buy an M car or fun car or racecar with an automatic gearbox. Downshifts are so slow.
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I've never driven a good automatic, so I take your word for it, but why does it matter if downshifts are slow, since you're off power anyway?
 
Because you want the shifting done before a corner so you can go early on throttle again for a good exit.

With automatic boxes mostly the down shifting is looking at your revs and if it is just a tad to high it waits till revs are low enough to shift and then you mostly are way into a corner. It just doesn’t work on track as it should be!
 
Triggaaar said:
I've never driven a good automatic, so I take your word for it, but why does it matter if downshifts are slow, since you're off power anyway?
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You want to power out of a corner, but the damn thing isn't in a low enough gear, so you press the pedal to the bottom, and you have to wait for it to downshift.
 
First things first, before reading these recent posts about manual/auto choice, I was 99% sure to order an Mk2 automatic.
After reading all of them, I grew up many doubts, and now I'm really on the edge of 50/50.
Most of the posts are filled up with helpful suggestion, but @Michael Knight nailed a point I totally agree about, the speed blindness an auto gear can sometimes feed back to the driver.
I experienced it while driving the GT-R R35 I had ten years ago. It had a double clutch auto, and sometimes I was losing touch with speed and car behavior, like I were suddenly moved into a video-game.
The manual maybe will force you to lose a few tenths to change gear, but at the same time it helps you keeping the focus and the connection with the car.

And the second important point, at least to me, that many of you mentioned, it's the freedom to decide what is the best gear for any possible situation you are dealing with.
Some of you mentioned the fact that some testers lamented the fact that the auto gear refused to select the 2nd gear when the same testers reckoned that 2nd gear was the best option for the situation they were in.

So, it could look like the auto car is not flexible enough to meet all the driving styles.
I have to say that a constant connection with the car, and the unrestricted freedom to decide how to drive it, are two of the most important things to me when it comes to driving a car, and even more fundamental, for a special car like the GRY is.

So maybe I'm more 60%-manual and 40%-auto now, who knows?
Hope to get to a final decision before the order book opens in Italy... 😰
 
Onehp said:
It's all about feeling/ feedback. If an autobox shifts instantly and hard, it's good. But the slightest delay, inconsistent behavior and/or auto up/downshifts can really kill the feeling of being in control. Very few auto boxes are on par with a true sequential racing gearbox.
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Or to put it in other words, if the auto box has a mind of it's own when you want to do the shifting, it feels like a (invisible) passenger is interfering with your driving. Very annoying. And also indeed @markku @Michael Knight , intuitively knowing what gear you're in as only a manual can do has huge advantages for referencing the speed you're doing with the car behavior.

From reading the reviews, the DAT is 'good' for being an autobox. But still an autobox. I see two uses, for daily driving in congestic traffic (a waste on so many levels... ) and for outright track driving where you're ok with the box shifting for you, which is often what makes most sense (and where the DAT is smart) and allows for good lap times.
 
AdvEvo said:
Because you want the shifting done before a corner so you can go early on throttle again for a good exit.

With automatic boxes mostly the down shifting is looking at your revs and if it is just a tad to high it waits till revs are low enough to shift and then you mostly are way into a corner. It just doesn’t work on track as it should be!
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That seems more of a problem of it not downshifting into the correct gear when it should, rather than it being too slow at the actual shifting part. So if you were able to use paddles in manual mode, you could drop it to the correct gear as you finish breaking (as with a manual) and it would be ready. I appreciate that in auto mode, only the best gearboxes might do that correctly.


CerN said:
You want to power out of a corner, but the damn thing isn't in a low enough gear, so you press the pedal to the bottom, and you have to wait for it to downshift.
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Yeah as above, I'm thinking that's more to do with it not selecting the correct gear, than the speed of the shift. Even if the shift is quick, you don't want to have to wait for it when it should already be in the correct gear.
 
markku said:
First things first, before reading these recent posts about manual/auto choice, I was 99% sure to order an Mk2 automatic.
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You'd certainly want to either test, or hear more reviews of how well the auto behaves.


markku said:
@Michael Knight nailed a point I totally agree about, the speed blindness an auto gear can sometimes feed back to the driver.
I experienced it while driving the GT-R R35 I had ten years ago. It had a double clutch auto, and sometimes I was losing touch with speed and car behavior, like I were suddenly moved into a video-game.
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Yeah it's a very good point. I'd guess you feel the speed in a Yaris more than some of the heavier but more powerful cars, but you still don't want to get ahead of yourself of public roads where, unlike on a track, you're only facing each corner once.
 
Michael Knight said:
This. Actually enjoying all the glitches the manual gearchange has such as lag during gearchange - brings more character in driving even its slower.

I think with manual its easier to ’pace’ your driving for various corners are car needs to be settled for corners.
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I never thought I'd see the day where you preferred a manual.
 
If you read the manual (p145-146) for the Auto MK2 - Yes you can use the paddles in either D or M mode to select a lower gear and of course the M (Sequential) mode is the very fastest changing - this has all been ignored in the reviews. If I had a fully sorted MK1 with low mileage in the garage I am sure I also could find 1000 good reasons why not to spend another £20,000 to buy the very latest Automatic, why the MKI is the original and best and why manual is 10 times better than Automatic!! (RTFM)
 
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