GR Yaris (Gen 2) GR Yaris Mk2 (MY2024->)

Ecsrobin said:
All depends on personal taste, also reviewers knowing their audience which for petrolheads you’re not allowed to like high seating, automatics and EV’s even if they’re good.

Personally I find the worst bit about driving (other than others on the road) is changing gear, I get no satisfaction from it, I don’t pull up after a drive and have a few high fives and fist pumps about how good the gear changes were.
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You’re in the minority.

An auto in this car will never be as popular as a manual, plain and simple. Even if the automatic is faster or has better performance, it just doesn't matter to most people who love this car. They want the thrill and involvement of shifting gears themselves. There's a special connection you get with a manual that you just can't find with an automatic. This isn't going to change because, for the folks who are into this car, it's all about the driving experience. Sure, a few might care about shaving seconds off lap times, but for the majority, it's about the fun and engagement of driving a manual.
 
6mt said:
You’re in the minority.

An auto in this car will never be as popular as a manual, plain and simple. Even if the automatic is faster or has better performance, it just doesn't matter to most people who love this car. They want the thrill and involvement of shifting gears themselves. There's a special connection you get with a manual that you just can't find with an automatic. This isn't going to change because, for the folks who are into this car, it's all about the driving experience. Sure, a few might care about shaving seconds off lap times, but for the majority, it's about the fun and engagement of driving a manual.
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This. Actually enjoying all the glitches the manual gearchange has such as lag during gearchange - brings more character in driving even its slower.

I think with manual its easier to ’pace’ your driving for various corners are car needs to be settled for corners. With auto its faster but also easier to get speed blindness - overall very different experience
 
Ecsrobin said:
I think you’ll be surprised by how close it is though. The UK owners group did a poll and considering no one has driven it yet the margin for a manual being the favoured option was slimmer than a petrolhead would suggest.
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maybe we're just getting old and too comfortability oriented. But it can be tricky poll / question to get straight answer.
At least almost all great journalists all say how good the new auto is, so it cannot be bad?
(alhtough one said as a side note that it is more tricky to manage speed in auto, but maybe that was just a glitch in Matrix)
 
So just for me. The manual transmission was very crucial to the purchase. Everyone has automatics. Sure it's faster. But with such a small, light car that is also ugly (sorry guys). I want to shift gears myself and not be driven by an automatic transmission :).

Especially if you drive a Tesla Performance model like me in everyday life. Then you can't do anything with a switching automatic. If you want to go back to the Stone Age in a fun car then really with a manual transmission :).
 
6mt said:
You’re in the minority.

An auto in this car will never be as popular as a manual, plain and simple. Even if the automatic is faster or has better performance, it just doesn't matter to most people who love this car. They want the thrill and involvement of shifting gears themselves. There's a special connection you get with a manual that you just can't find with an automatic. This isn't going to change because, for the folks who are into this car, it's all about the driving experience. Sure, a few might care about shaving seconds off lap times, but for the majority, it's about the fun and engagement of driving a manual.
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Wouldn't be to sure about this. Look at Porsche, I had been looking months to find a manual 718 GTS, but almost everybody takes the PDK. Hyundai started offering the i30N as an automatic after their facelift and in the current second hand market there are more automatics for sale.
 
Michael Knight said:
maybe we're just getting old and too comfortability oriented. But it can be tricky poll / question to get straight answer.
At least almost all great journalists all say how good the new auto is, so it cannot be bad?
(alhtough one said as a side note that it is more tricky to manage speed in auto, but maybe that was just a glitch in Matrix)
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I think most modern performance autos are good, the problem for most people though is you drive a bad one and suddenly you think they’re all that bad. Or you last drove one 20 years ago and didn’t realise technology has moved on.
 
Ecsrobin said:
I think most modern performance autos are good, the problem for most people though is you drive a bad one and suddenly you think they’re all that bad. Or you last drove one 20 years ago and didn’t realise technology has moved on.
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It doesn't matter if they are good from a technical standpoint if you're specifically looking for the engagement of driving a manual.
It's great to have the option of an Auto for those that want it but I can't help but agree with the others that think that the manual is an integral part of the GR Yaris experience.
A full on sequential might be a worthy alternative though ;)
 
Florens said:
It doesn't matter if they are good from a technical standpoint if you're specifically looking for the engagement of driving a manual.
It's great to have the option of an Auto for those that want it but I can't help but agree with the others that think that the manual is an integral part of the GR Yaris experience.
A full on sequential might be a worthy alternative though ;)
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I agree (that's why I ordered the manual :D), but I think the auto will be sold a lot as well.
Most people who wanted a manual GR Yaris, will have tried to get te MK1. So the population that wants one but can only drive auto will be relatively big.
 
sandervdw said:
I agree (that's why I ordered the manual :D), but I think the auto will be sold a lot as well.
Most people who wanted a manual GR Yaris, will have tried to get te MK1. So the population that wants one but can only drive auto will be relatively big.
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Yeah I think the auto will sell decently enough, and let's face it it'll be in the Corolla either as an option or when they facelift it soon enough.

If the auto was the only option for the MK1 I wouldn't have bought it though
 
I don't have an automatic transmission on my wishlist, but I'm drooling to put in a sequential gearbox. Even one were you need the clutch to downshift, and then you don't need (to completely rape the car with) another ecu like syvecs or motec.
 
Michael Knight said:
... almost all great journalists all say how good the new auto is, so it cannot be bad?
(alhtough one said as a side note that it is more tricky to manage speed in auto, but maybe that was just a glitch in Matrix)
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Do they? That's not what I've noticed. And if they say it's good, then good in what sense; eg, mechanically or maybe on the track?

Here are the insights I gathered at launch.

Reviews of the Toyota invitees mention things that make me sceptical; the:
  • autocar video mentions:
    • @10:57 that it took a moment to wake up again;
    • @12:21 that there is kick down point in the throttle pedal [...which is a...] glitch in the back of your mind.
  • CAR mag review mentions that the shift quality is somewhat variable [...] mostly the changes are a little soft and often characterised by a delayed, liquidy sort of impulse. Also, that this auto gearbox doesn't feel as sharp as others.
  • Carwow @21:27 “whether I would want it on the road, I don’t know … for the road, you’re probably going to want the manual for the involvement...”
  • Garage Days video mentions at:
    • 16:45 He is not sure the auto will be faster in all conditions, including twisty roads;
    • 28:45 It doesn’t seem it’s doing a much sporty "reduction" [probably means downshift];
    • 29:25 The change is slow;
    • 30:00 The changes/downshifts are quick… "it doesn’t let me downshift to 2nd when I would have needed to put 2nd";
    • 30:45 The last "reduction" [probably means downshift] doesn’t make it but the change is sporty…;
    • 34:18 "The [auto] gearbox is sporty, fast but not the gearbox I would use in this car";
    • 34:46 "It responds quickly [...but…] at some points I wanted to put in [probably means “downshift to”] 2nd gear and it hasn’t let me [the car could be heard beeping as he was trying] and in the manual it would have put it in 2nd gear even at the speed at which the engine was running without ruining it".
I assume that when the car is tested on public roads and by people who don't feel obliged to not be critical of Toyota (eg Ogier works for them and, despite what he said about the auto, the special edition in his name only comes in manual, as does the Kalle special edition), we will start seeing more negative comments about the auto. That's when enthusiasts can have a go, outside of tracks and in the context of real life use and soft (ie engagement, feel, involvement) rather than hard (ie lap times, gear change times) metrics, where the new car's chassis and suspension characteristics will be put to that kind of test too (eg the current Honda Civic TypeR has a brilliant setup for the track, which may, however, make the car feel less than great on UK B-roads in their current state [don't get me started]). I expect it will be another case of @MRA3 's early predictions coming true in the sense of what he mentions in the section Auto of his post.

Hopefully, reviewers will distinguish between driving modes (ie Sport vs Normal/Eco) that affect the auto gearbox behaviour (response, etc) and mention if they were using D or M range on the auto, so that we get the full picture.
 
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Spirited said:
Do they? That's not what I've noticed. And if they say it's good, then good in what sense; eg, mechanically or maybe on the track?

Here are the insights I gathered at launch.

Reviews of the Toyota invitees mention things that make me sceptical; the:
  • autocar video mentions:
    • @10:57 that it took a moment to wake up again;
    • @12:21 that there is kick down point in the throttle pedal [...which is a...] glitch in the back of your mind.
  • CAR mag review mentions that the shift quality is somewhat variable [...] mostly the changes are a little soft and often characterised by a delayed, liquidy sort of impulse. Also, that this auto gearbox doesn't feel as sharp as others.
  • Carwow @21:27 “whether I would want it on the road, I don’t know … for the road, you’re probably going to want the manual for the involvement...”
  • Garage Days video mentions at:
    • 16:45 He is not sure the auto will be faster in all conditions, including twisty roads;
    • 28:45 It doesn’t seem it’s doing a much sporty "reduction" [probably means downshift];
    • 29:25 The change is slow;
    • 30:00 The changes/downshifts are quick… "it doesn’t let me downshift to 2nd when I would have needed to put 2nd";
    • 30:45 The last "reduction" [probably means downshift] doesn’t make it but the change is sporty…;
    • 34:18 "The [auto] gearbox is sporty, fast but not the gearbox I would use in this car";
    • 34:46 "It responds quickly [...but…] at some points I wanted to put in [probably means “downshift to”] 2nd gear and it hasn’t let me [the car could be heard beeping as he was trying] and in the manual it would have put it in 2nd gear even at the speed at which the engine was running without ruining it".
I assume that when the car is tested on public roads and by people who don't feel obliged to not be critical of Toyota (eg Ogier works for them and, despite what he said about the auto, the special edition in his name only comes in manual, as does the Kalle special edition), we will start seeing more negative comments about the auto. That's when enthusiasts can have a go, outside of tracks and in the context of real life use and soft (ie engagement, feel, involvement) rather than hard (ie lap times, gear change times) metrics, where the new cars chassis and suspension characteristics will be put to that kind of test too (eg the Honda Civic TypeR has a brilliant setup for the track, which may, however, make the car feel less than great on UK B-roads in their current state [don't get me started]). I expect it will be another case of @MRA3 's early predictions coming true in the sense of what he mentions in the section Auto of his post.

Hopefully, reviewers will distinguish between driving modes (ie Sport vs Normal/Eco) that affect the auto gearbox behaviour (response, etc) and mention if they were using D or M range on the auto, so that we get the full picture.
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Great detail - you have been listening reviews more carefully than I have! I got the generic impression that everyone says how good auto box is but as indicated it might not be perfect. hope it will get its use case for this car also, but not easy combination if it has stiffer suspension etc. I hope Toyota had specced cars with different chassis depending on use case, rally, road/ every day, track etc. much easier to make spesific versions than just offer generic for all, look what Porsche does..
 
Michael Knight said:
Great detail - you have been listening reviews more carefully than I have! I got the generic impression that everyone says how good auto box is but as indicated it might not be perfect. hope it will get its use case for this car also, but not easy combination if it has stiffer suspension etc. I hope Toyota had specced cars with different chassis depending on use case, rally, road/ every day, track etc. much easier to make spesific versions than just offer generic for all, look what Porsche does..
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Most of those reviews about the auto were in the Finland review. Where they also state that they remained in second, but that the auto makes it easier to concentrate on the steering (which is true, in difficult conditions the auto will be better).
Same goes for track use, it's just easier to drive fast on track with an auto.

But this car is built for b-roads and rally stages, which means the joy if playing with the clutch etc is what it's all about.
 
Main 'disappointment' for me is that the auto gearing is just about as tall as the manual, just gears added on top. If the gears were close ratio, at least the first 5 or 6, then that would have made it more interesting for at least those not bothered about the involvement/hassle...
 
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