That is just crazy. CO2 tax in Lithuania for the new GR yaris will be 150€, paid during vehicle first registration, most likely covered by the dealer. The absolute max for CO2 tax here is 368.82€ regardless of CO2 emission that is made by the car.
GR Yaris (Gen 2) GR Yaris Mk2 (MY2024->)
- Thread starter Michael Knight
- Start date
CerN
Totally Hooked
- Feb 17, 2023
- 319
- 1,008
Correct, and I just realised I made a mistake. I actually calculated for the non-circuit pack, so it should be €1,711.15 more total.
Michael Knight
Totally Hooked
- Thread starter
- #2,123
so you have total 23k€ for just taxes + the car price?
In Finland the regular tax will be around 14-15k (though not sure how the option pack will be taxed). Auto then 17k.
CerN
Totally Hooked
- Feb 17, 2023
- 319
- 1,008
Pretty much, yes. Around 23k in taxes VAT not included.
markku
Totally Hooked
- Dec 10, 2023
- 350
- 893
I think politicians should be at least more transparent about their real intentions about this stuff.
If you really want to tax emissions, there is no other way than applying an additional, proportional tax on petrol and diesel retail sales, period (too unpopular, maybe, dear politicians?).
If you a bury under an insane amount of taxes, since the start, a car that you won't ever know how many kms will do and how much emissions will really produce in its lifetime, you are simply tampering with a market, by deciding "a priori" what kind of cars has to be sold, and what should simply hopelessly die.
This is NOT what a politician should do, in my humble opinion.
I understand your point. However, the method is quite well thought out. It is designed to not punish the people already in ICE cars historically, e.g. in Sweden the average car is like 15 years old. Even higher taxes on fuel would punish too many disproportionately, often not in a place to buy a new car. And that is what these taxes are designed to do, to stop new combustion cars to come to market that will live and need to be fuelled 20-30 years into the future, a very long time. In this manner, a huge future emissions are displaced. It is effective for our societal goals.
Like I said before, unfortunately we have made our hobby out of what in essence is a transportation system, designed to move people, not necessarily to provide entertainment to the masses. And for 99% of transportation, imho, burning precious and dangerous liquid minerals into our atmosphere is a pure waste, no specific joy is derived from that act and it is very destructive and should thus be limited. It hurts us enthusiast but at large, as a system, it is a necessary evil, change at this scale is never easy. And in some cases, like France, the incentives are disproportionate...
Slightly unpopular opinion on a car forum I know, I am ambivalent about it too...
Last edited:
I'm not looking to argue but what you've posted is outdated information. See here for example: https://www.largus.fr/actualite-aut...ique-va-aussi-s-envoler-en-2024-30029816.htmlIt also says 20 years and my brothers in Nice have confirmed this to me.
Removal of the cap on penalty tax from 2024
The previous cap on penalty tax of 50 percent of the purchase price will no longer apply from 2024. Imported used cars will also be subject to a higher penalty tax, which applied in previous years. However, there is a discount of five percent for each year in which the vehicle was already registered. Vehicles that are 20 years old or older are exempt from the penalty tax.
CO2 Steuer in Frankreich: Ab 2024 drastische Erhöhungen
Frankreich plant 2024 erhebliche Erhöhungen der CO2 Steuer, um umweltfreundlicheres Fahrverhalten zu fördern. Ein Strafsteuer für CO2-Ausstoßmobilitree.net
You can also go the official route of checking service-public.fr :
I'm 100% on board with what you've said.
While I wish there'd be exemptions for "fun cars" that are worth saving that is not practical at all and would seem extremely unfair to the less privileged that aren't even close to being in a place where they could afford a weekend car of any type.
We enthusiasts of fun ICE cars are on a sinking ship and it's hard to accept that it might be needed for "the greater good™"..
I agree. Yes, it sucks for us petrolheads, but electric cars are just a "better" way of transport than any ICE. And in my opinion taxing them is just necessary.
However, I do think they should try to tax the actual polution, either through tax on fuel or by km. I don't care if you drive an old car or not, if you're poluting, you should pay for it. Yes, that will punish poor people as well, but if you keep trying to make exceptions, the polution will never stop (eg, Cuba, they are still using 50's cars, if they can, they will keep them running...).
There are a lot of discussions about EV's and that they aren't fun to drive. And in the current market, I agree. I haven't driven an EV where I felt "this is a great car". However, I have high hopes for the Caterham Project V and new Porsche 718. The lack of noise isn't really an issue for me anymore (face it, without the sound enhancement, you wouldn't hear the Yaris engine either), as long as it's just fun to drive.
An ECE compliant exhaust will fix the sound issue for you mate
Lack of sound can be an issue, the lack of a manual transmission is a bummer as well (not counting toyotas fake manual..) . You've also got to consider the immense difficulty of building an affordable enough + lightweight sports EV that also has good range (I'm thinking sub 1300 KG here). The Yaris is already on the heavier side of what I enjoy and I certainly wouldn't be willing to make the jump to a heavy EV even if the Batteries were to be placed below the cabin keeping center of gravity low.
Well, the Caterham will be 1200kg and a reasonable range. But indeed, something like a Lotus Elise will not be possible anymore (at least for a while).An ECE compliant exhaust will fix the sound issue for you mate
Lack of sound can be an issue, the lack of a manual transmission is a bummer as well (not counting toyotas fake manual..) . You've also got to consider the immense difficulty of building an affordable enough + lightweight sports EV that also has good range (I'm thinking sub 1300 KG here). The Yaris is already on the heavier side of what I enjoy and I certainly wouldn't be willing to make the jump to a heavy EV even if the Batteries were to be placed below the cabin keeping center of gravity low.
But a lot of people complain about the mass of eg. A Tesla Model 3. "I don't care if it has 500bhp, a car this heavy can't be agile" and then they step in their BMW M3 which weighs more... EV's actually aren't much heavier than the current generation of high performance cars.
Yes and... No. BMW made the i3 / i3s 10 years ago at sub 1300kg and with modern cells would have a good range. Actually my next car on the list, maybe with an upgrade battery and some chassi mods...
CerN
Totally Hooked
- Feb 17, 2023
- 319
- 1,008
Norway did both. Petrol prices over 2 euro per liter.
If you commute to one of the larger cities prepare to spend 6-7 euro every day in tolls on top.
Over 90% of new cars sold are EVs here, and now the taxes are being turned up for them as well quite quickly. Soon they won't be much cheaper to own, but they will be the only thing on sale.
Last edited:
markku
Totally Hooked
- Dec 10, 2023
- 350
- 893
About the taxes, I appreciate the explanation by @Onehp, but it doesn't 100% convince me in the end.
Politicians (except for Norway, and congrats to them) make their choices from one election to another, and they don't think about long-term future for a nanosecond in their minds (maybe a few ones, but very fews).
They could put a tax on petrol sales and use this additional revenue to seriously subsidise the purchase of less polluting vehicles, to help people with old cars that would be heavily damaged by the additional tax on petrol.
But they won't ever do that, because no one would vote for a politician that promises to add new (heavy) taxes for almost every voter.
And to say it all, this is an opinion that I heard more from politicians (confidentially) than from common people.
About what @sandervdw wrote, I'm actually not a typical petrolhead (I use my GRY only for a few thousands miles yearly for fun outside town, the rest to me is by public transport and walking by feet... I have one of tiniest human carbon-print in the world, I guess), but I'm used to stick with data in my life and work, and by now I'm sorry but I can't agree with anyone who says with absolute certainty that "BEVs are better of any ICE", and viceversa.
But I won't elaborate more, since it's not the scope of this forum/thread.
Last edited:
CerN
Totally Hooked
- Feb 17, 2023
- 319
- 1,008
Congrats? They have made high and loud promises about democracy, and making things more affordable, while systematically taking away people's choices and making everything more expensive. The only new thing is they have just stopped bothering trying to hide it. Just this year we've had two ministers of state that have had to step down due to cheating on their master's degree.
Our economy is literally doing worse than Russia's at the moment, and it's all due to incompetence. I have lived my entire life in this country, thinking I would never move, because it's the best country on earth, and the last 4 years it has nosedived so hard I don't see myself living here for another 10.
/rant (sorry for off topicness)
Last edited:
markku
Totally Hooked
- Dec 10, 2023
- 350
- 893
Politician always disappoint you, I agree. Italy is a very good example of this
Norbi
Obsessed member
Michael Knight
Totally Hooked
