Electric Cars

This latest video from Harry sums up everything that is wrong with the commitment to EV’s.

Ridiculously expensive, stupidly heavy, riddled with wasteful technology that no one wants (speed limiters, lane assist, fake engine noise etc), and doesn’t achieve anything like the efficiency that is claimed.

That’s a car designed by bureaucrats. BMW are almost forced to release it because they are bound, like everyone else to the quota rules that are really going to hurt manufacturers from now on. The 5 series is one of their most successful platforms and to design and build an entirely new car that caters for the corporate crowd/rep-mobile/director market AND is more suitable to EV design demands, tooling etc takes years. Easier and cheaper just to integrate existing battery technology into an adapted chassis system.

The result is a dogs dinner that is obsolete before it hits the showroom. Unless politicians wake up real fast they are dooming Europe’s car production to oblivion.
 
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Side note: was driving home in a snow storm the other day, passing a lot of cars in the evening rush hour. I encountered three other cars playing around in the snow in traffic, a 458, a R8 and a Bugatti Chiron. So the future is ICE for daily fun cars....

... just kidding, never seen those in traffic during winter, the three other cars that were having fun were all electric! Volvo with electric rear (drift) axle, an EV6 rwd and a Mustang-E. And not a single ICE car.

Anecdotal but nevertheless I stand myself corrected in my prejudice that EV buyers are all uninterested in some driving fun...
 
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Bronson said:
This latest video from Harry sums up everything that is wrong with the commitment to EV’s.

Ridiculously expensive, stupidly heavy, riddled with wasteful technology that no one wants (speed limiters, lane assist, fake engine noise etc), and doesn’t achieve anything like the efficiency that is claimed.

That’s a car designed by bureaucrats. BMW are almost forced to release it because they are bound, like everyone else to the quota rules that are really going to hurt manufacturers from now on. The 5 series is one of their most successful platforms and to design and build an entirely new car that caters for the corporate crowd/rep-mobile/director market AND is more suitable to EV design demands, tooling etc takes years. Easier and cheaper just to integrate existing battery technology into an adapted chassis system.

The result is a dogs dinner that is obsolete before it hits the showroom. Unless politicians wake up real fast they are dooming Europe’s car production to oblivion.
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What I don't get is why the car industry goes along with it. They have power, they could go together and demand changes. It's not like the EU would be able to manage if the top 4-5 car manufacturers said "Change this and this, or else we won't build any vans or lorries for 2 years".
 
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I’m glad he called out the innovation that went into the i3 and i8. Just a shame they completely threw the concept of carbon tubs and range extenders in the bin and went for “shove a massive battery in a massive car”.
 
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Bronson said:
This latest video from Harry sums up everything that is wrong with the commitment to EV’s.

Ridiculously expensive, stupidly heavy, riddled with wasteful technology that no one wants (speed limiters, lane assist, fake engine noise etc), and doesn’t achieve anything like the efficiency that is claimed.

That’s a car designed by bureaucrats. BMW are almost forced to release it because they are bound, like everyone else to the quota rules that are really going to hurt manufacturers from now on. The 5 series is one of their most successful platforms and to design and build an entirely new car that caters for the corporate crowd/rep-mobile/director market AND is more suitable to EV design demands, tooling etc takes years. Easier and cheaper just to integrate existing battery technology into an adapted chassis system.

The result is a dogs dinner that is obsolete before it hits the showroom. Unless politicians wake up real fast they are dooming Europe’s car production to oblivion.
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The normal i40 has gotten very good reviews though, good to steer and very comfortable. My brother is getting one.
 
CerN said:
What I don't get is why the car industry goes along with it. They have power, they could go together and demand changes. It's not like the EU would be able to manage if the top 4-5 car manufacturers said "Change this and this, or else we won't build any vans or lorries for 2 years".
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I think the ‘nuclear option’ has never really been an option!
 
coldcuppatea said:
I’m glad he called out the innovation that went into the i3 and i8. Just a shame they completely threw the concept of carbon tubs and range extenders in the bin and went for “shove a massive battery in a massive car”.
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valid point. maybe a customer questionnary resulted they favor comfort, room, and big ipad touchscreen to responsive car. Simple as that, people are plain stupid (in terms of what is considered driving 'fun').

local Porsche importer now does marketing via Social media celebs maybe describes also well how they see the market at the moment. Enthusiast drivers are minority and not current interest group for a brand that was once known as a sports car.
 
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CerN said:
What I don't get is why the car industry goes along with it. They have power, they could go together and demand changes. It's not like the EU would be able to manage if the top 4-5 car manufacturers said "Change this and this, or else we won't build any vans or lorries for 2 years".
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Most people in the industry know they can't continue as business as usual, and most of what is coming is suported by the industry, the lobby is huge. I am more concerned european manufacturers are too late to the party, have not invested enough in dedicated platforms and have the courage to keep innovating (like the i3), and will become the stupid phone equivalent as the smart phone equivalent takes over the industry...
 
Coastliner said:
Been done to death this subject, EV's can be viable if charged at home, I have said before they are not the answer and never will be.
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As an everyday car they are rubbish with the tech they have currently.
As a commuter car they are perfect but not every one just wants to drive back and forth to work and has the money to buy a second car.
Once charge times come down to fueling times then that’s when people will swap. Until then I’ll be driving my hybrid Corolla.
 
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Bronson said:
This latest video from Harry sums up everything that is wrong with the commitment to EV’s.

Ridiculously expensive, stupidly heavy, riddled with wasteful technology that no one wants (speed limiters, lane assist, fake engine noise etc), and doesn’t achieve anything like the efficiency that is claimed.

That’s a car designed by bureaucrats. BMW are almost forced to release it because they are bound, like everyone else to the quota rules that are really going to hurt manufacturers from now on. The 5 series is one of their most successful platforms and to design and build an entirely new car that caters for the corporate crowd/rep-mobile/director market AND is more suitable to EV design demands, tooling etc takes years. Easier and cheaper just to integrate existing battery technology into an adapted chassis system.

The result is a dogs dinner that is obsolete before it hits the showroom. Unless politicians wake up real fast they are dooming Europe’s car production to oblivion.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more. It's feel like we going into an incredibly dull phase of motoring, I can completely get behind the drive to go BEV, but why oh why does it have to be so bland or vulgar. Modern car design and execution is dreadful. With what is available to the modern world why are cars so boring? It seems every manufacturer is hell bent of spewing out soulless bland looking cars that are excessively big, expensive and complex, BMW for me are currently the top of that list. It even comes down to colour palette, just so boring, Its like driving in Sin City, black white and grey.
 
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That front end is one of their better ones and it is still hideous! And then they decide to draw attention to it by illuminating it:ROFLMAO: I know he came across as a bit of a luddite when he got in the car prodding at the screen at a million different options but he was right though, how many of those are going to be used on a regular basis? People will go through them and try them out once but will find one they like and stick with it, what an utter waste of millions of pounds of R&D that could have been better spent on just setting up the chassis properly in the first place. It seems like lazy engineers that have given up, here's you car but we can't be arsed to finish it for you so you can finish it off yourself.

Good to see that he is going to measure the true efficiency of EV's by measuring electricity more accurately, quite shocking to see 10% of what he paid for not actually "reaching" the battery. All those clever onboard computers showing miles per kw are lying by not accounting for the "lost" 10%.
 
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v8s said:
Good to see that he is going to measure the true efficiency of EV's by measuring electricity more accurately, quite shocking to see 10% of what he paid for not actually "reaching" the battery. All those clever onboard computers showing miles per kw are lying by not accounting for the "lost" 10%.
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Drives me crazy how many motoring magazines ignore this, so Harry is right to pick up on it. Much like varied driving, driving in town, idling in traffic in an ICE, an EV’s efficiency plummets through battery warm up, phantom draining and long term degradation.

I used to take a meter reading every month for nigh on ten years with the various EV’s I had. 10% is a conservative figure, but probably about right for long term usage. On a hot day, the air conditioning and battery coolant systems can drain 15% of your battery, I’ve seen YouTube videos of people in Florida reporting 25-30% battery loss with their cars just parked on the drive. In winter it’s much the same situation, instead of cooling, the batteries need heating!
 
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Bronson said:
Drives me crazy how many motoring magazines ignore this, so Harry is right to pick up on it. Much like varied driving, driving in town, idling in traffic in an ICE, an EV’s efficiency plummets through battery warm up, phantom draining and long term degradation.

I used to take a meter reading every month for nigh on ten years with the various EV’s I had. 10% is a conservative figure, but probably about right for long term usage. On a hot day, the air conditioning and battery coolant systems can drain 15% of your battery, I’ve seen YouTube videos of people in Florida reporting 25-30% battery loss with their cars just parked on the drive. In winter it’s much the same situation, instead of cooling, the batteries need heating!
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My girlfriend's 2020 Fiat 500e is supposed to have 260km range. When it was -20c here a couple of weeks ago, you would be lucky to get 120km.

You might get 260km if it's 15c, overcast, no wind, 1 person in the car, and you never go over 80kph.
 
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rsh1972 said:
As long as I can still drive my GR86 for fun, I don't have a problem with an EV for the daily grind. It's loads cheaper at the minute on a cheap electric tariff, £4 for a charge, for approx 200 miles.
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What is your 1kWh cost, what does that represent in miles per kW.

Curious, and a bit off topic. She wants solar, so it might be viable getting a solar battery on wheels for the local stuff.
 
Chris Mc said:
What is your 1kWh cost, what does that represent in miles per kW.

Curious, and a bit off topic. She wants solar, so it might be viable getting a solar battery on wheels for the local stuff.
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If you change tariff to something like Octopus intelligent EV it's 7.5p per kWh off peak 11;30 to 6am. So charge at night and a full battery is about £4.
I've got an MG4 51kwh battery, so 51x0.075p = £3.85 plus the usual standing charges of course.

So £4 gives about 200 miles in the MG4.

Solar and batteries seem to have a long break even, maybe 7 years+.
 
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rsh1972 said:
If you change tariff to something like Octopus intelligent EV it's 7.5p per kWh off peak 11;30 to 6am. So charge at night and a full battery is about £4.
I've got an MG4 51kwh battery, so 51x0.075p = £3.85 plus the usual standing charges of course.

So £4 gives about 200 miles in the MG4.

Solar and batteries seem to have a long break even, maybe 7 years+.
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Can you let me known how much the day rate is? My rate is 27.6p per KW all day and night, and 52.5p standing daily charge with OVO, I question any company giving you something cheap at night without scraping back the benefits during the day, I use 90% of my energy during the day as I don’t have an EV, even 2p a KW extra for the day rate would add £16 a month to my bill as I average 800 KW electricity use per month.
So if I charged an MG4 once a week that £16 extra adds £4 a charge in real terms to the £3.85 to charge the car using the cheap night rate.
Still cheap, but is the day rate for you under 30p? If it’s more then you start to lose the benefit of the cheap night rate.
Interesting
 
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johnybigarms said:
Can you let me known how much the day rate is? My rate is 27.6p per KW all day and night, and 52.5p standing daily charge with OVO, I question any company giving you something cheap at night without scraping back the benefits during the day, I use 90% of my energy during the day as I don’t have an EV, even 2p a KW extra for the day rate would add £16 a month to my bill as I average 800 KW electricity use per month.
So if I charged an MG4 once a week that £16 extra adds £4 a charge in real terms to the £3.85 to charge the car using the cheap night rate.
Still cheap, but is the day rate for you under 30p? If it’s more then you start to lose the benefit of the cheap night rate.
Interesting
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Yes that's a good point, if you are at home during the day, it's better to have a lower day rate.

It's postcode dependent, so you can check it yourself.

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My postcode is 7.5p/kWh 23:30-05:30.

Day rate 29.9p/kWh 05:30 until 23:30.

Standing charge 52.32p/day.
 
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