Electric Cars

As for excitement, of course it's not 'exciting' in the intended sense if charging doesn't work.
And of course for anyone doing lots of long trips, BEV isn't ideal in UK but also lots of people don't do that... Average trip length is very (too) short...

And people doing high mileage (long commutes) love BEV over here, because if charging cheap from home/work, TCO is actually very low...
 
Onehp said:
As for excitement, of course it's not 'exciting' in the intended sense if charging doesn't work.
And of course for anyone doing lots of long trips, BEV isn't ideal in UK but also lots of people don't do that... Average trip length is very (too) short...

And people doing high mileage (long commutes) love BEV over here, because if charging cheap from home/work, TCO is actually very low...
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@Onehp which country are you living?
 
AndyRC said:
It’s frustrating and we are at the start of a huge transition.

I’m not sure that all commercial vehicles will be electric , Toyota is still committed to hydrogen. A lot of commercial vehicles “return to base“ every day and could be refuelled with hydrogen stored in bulk on site. If Hydrogen becomes more common hydrogen refilling stations will become common place and installing them at truck stops would be logical. I’m open minded and interested to see what technological solutions appear over the next 10 years , assuming I’m around to see them 🤞🙂
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I certainly hope that hydrogen is presented as a viable alternative, but without government/taxpayer support the top manufacturers could pile in with investment but the technology won't be adopted because firms and individuals won't be able to use it - same for these synthetic fuels. Governments are just one-track minded when it comes to electric cars.
 
Bronson said:
I certainly hope that hydrogen is presented as a viable alternative, but without government/taxpayer support the top manufacturers could pile in with investment but the technology won't be adopted because firms and individuals won't be able to use it - same for these synthetic fuels. Governments are just one-track minded when it comes to electric cars.
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It‘s interesting that the Japanese government are putting money into Hydrogen technology along with Japanese manufacturers, especially Toyota. The world may not end up totally electric , the EU decided BEV was the way to go and our government went along with it. What is clear is that if burning fossil fuels are no longer considered “acceptable” that will drive innovation and possibly technologies we have not even heard of yet 🤔.
 
Toyota is a global company and a market leader is much of Africa, Asia and South-America where BEV's are non-starter because the electrical grids are barely adequate enough to keep the lights on. Hydrogen is a much better solution there if you were forced to ditch combustion engines. In reality, they will continue to sell millions of gasoline cars there for decades.
 
Or synthetic fuels or gas.

While there is a push for no ICE car sales, does that automatically translate to BEV only? Also, a stop on sales on fossil liquid fuels isn't the same as a stop on sales of liquid fuels full stop?
Either way, regulations will adapt to real life feasability if goals cannot be met.

Personally, I believe most people won't want to buy a ICE car by the time 2030 arrives, even if they were allowed to... Already a big majority of 'normal' Swedes I know want to have an electric car when they get their next car...
 
This whole discussion reminds me of the early beginnings of diesels. At first nobody wanted them, then some, then most actually preferred them, then tax systems blatently pushed them.

The big difference is that diesels aren't well suited for short distances, while BEV excells at it...
 
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I think you have nailed it Onehp. From a car perspective ICE will undoubtedly become quaint.

HGVs and aircraft will be a different matter as the energy density needs are much higher.
 
Here in 100% Clean Green New Zealand the govt is pushing EV with incentives & disincentives for ICE

The problem is we don't have enough power now from our Hydro & Geo power plants so in their infinite wisdom we are burning increasingly more & more cheap dirty coal, imported from Indonesia to make power, kinda hypocritical to be fair

Couple that with only 5 million of us spread out around the country, lack of infrastructure, no future proofing in housing developments yet its going to be a mess

Yes in time they will work ok in our bigger cities but these are tiny compared to the likes of our neighbours in Sydney or Melbourne whose populations each are greater than our total...

As power consumption goes up & up in this country they can't just keep burning coal to try to avoid blackouts its dirty & not 100% Clean Green NZ....

I envisage the cost of fuel etc will just keep going up & with the vast majority of that is taxes so the govt will just keep on smiling & pushing use towards EVS
 
Kiwi Greg said:
Here in 100% Clean Green New Zealand the govt is pushing EV with incentives & disincentives for ICE

The problem is we don't have enough power now from our Hydro & Geo power plants so in their infinite wisdom we are burning increasingly more & more cheap dirty coal, imported from Indonesia to make power, kinda hypocritical to be fair

Couple that with only 5 million of us spread out around the country, lack of infrastructure, no future proofing in housing developments yet its going to be a mess

Yes in time they will work ok in our bigger cities but these are tiny compared to the likes of our neighbours in Sydney or Melbourne whose populations each are greater than our total...

As power consumption goes up & up in this country they can't just keep burning coal to try to avoid blackouts its dirty & not 100% Clean Green NZ....

I envisage the cost of fuel etc will just keep going up & with the vast majority of that is taxes so the govt will just keep on smiling & pushing use towards EVS
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This is the reality in the UK, if we got a 50% take up in EV's we could not at this time produce enough electricity to support their use. I know eventually EV's will become dominant but not by 2030 it's far too ambitious. The British government have no idea, pretty obvious given the current issues over gatherings at number 10. They just haven't got a clue.
 
You'll never beat that rich fuel smell at a car show when every enthusiast in the country turns up to show off their pride and joy. Sadly you won't get that with EV's and like people have said above = until the infrastructure is there they just don't work as well as they could and should!!
Meh in my old age I will be forced to have one but until then I am going to enjoy the combustion engine as long as I can! :love: :cool:
 
Energy sector is also in for a big changeover. For sure.

Although also here one needs to remain sceptic and open minded, the ones shouting hardest nay or yay are rarely the ones reflecting the true, complex and nuanced reality.
Like in the other place, the naysaysers were having a party at the perceived failure when fossil fuelled generators were used to generate electricity. But from a cold hard factual perspective, not an idealistic one, that is perfectly acceptable as a transition strategy. It is still much more efficient and clean than burning the same fuel in the cars, and having electric cars allows for an energy switch at any time to a more green electric generation capacity arises, while a new ICE car will be more or less doomed to burn fossil fuels for the lagest part of its existence. 10-20 years or so?

Already now, I adapt, I charge our BEV on the nights electricity is at it's cheapest. It is a 30s check and charger schedule I do all in my phone. It is costing me peanuts (~£2 for 100 mile real range) and it is green electricity, using the electricity network when the load is at its lowest and only ones producing electricity are wind or hydro. Next step is own solar and storage, pehaps in a salt battery. Ironically high energy prices helps speed up such transitions longer term...
 
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Coastliner said:
I know eventually EV's will become dominant but not by 2030 it's far too ambitious. The British government have no idea, pretty obvious given the current issues over gatherings at number 10. They just haven't got a clue.
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Maybe they don't, but I'm pretty sure industry (automotive and energy) wants a clear path for the future, so they can make the longer term planning and investments. Right now we're not fully noticing this move as it is not that long ago the decision was made, but stuff is certainly happening and change will accelerate in the coming 8 years...
 
The good news for the U.K. we are well placed to benefit from windpower, especially offshore. The Siemens wind turbine factory in Hull is doubling in size , new factories planned for the NE. The infrastructure for bringing the power from the North Sea Dogger Bank offshore wind farm is going in , on shore cables are laid, and substation well under way just down the road from me

The latest generation of BEV can store and feed power back into your home/grid when not in use. As most journeys in reality are pretty short BEVs all plugged into the grid when parked up could become a huge energy storage system , charging at night when electricity is in low usage , but turbines are still turning , and feed it back when it’s needed. With my current driving pattern I could probably live with a 20% charge well over 80% of the time.

Just a thought 🤔
 
Just bumping this thread, but I have done 3,000 miles in the last 3 weeks over France and the UK and public charging is a complete and utter waste of time. I went to about a dozen in France and every single one was out of order, broken or at some of the hotels I stayed at some selfish pig had left their car on charge overnight, hogging the charger, and no-one knew who the vehicle owner was so I didn't get to use them. At other venues (tourist attractions, restaurants) most chargers were out of service. In the UK only the Pod Point scheme seems to work with any moderate success - just be prepared to park the car up for hours as 7-11kW is standard. Realistically Tesla Superchargers are the only things that work - on a few occasions I had to do 30+ mile detours to reach a Supercharger - but they're getting so busy in the UK queues are forming to use them and charging is limited to 80%. Price hikes this year have gone from 24p to 45p per kWh. I genuinely don't know how other EV drivers can manage long trips.

Infrastructure will catch up? After years of driving plug-in hybrids and EV's, it's worse now than ever.
 
When you live with one as a daily/work-horse then you're not driving it for enjoyment, you're driving it for convenience and EV's, particularly Tesla's, excel in this area. Let's face it, 90% of people out there don't give a damn what they drive or how it drives, as long as it gets them from A to B.
 
GRMX said:
The thread is pretty much a generic people's opinion of electric transportation pods. In my own opinion, the albeit small sample I've tried, i found them horrendous. As a 'daily' I can't see how something I'd detest would be good? I like changing gears, I like getting involved, i like hearing an engine (however small). The transportation pods got nothing. I went in the MINI for about 20 mins in stop start traffic and on a good spin (being mindful of the 'range'). I got in a 'normal' Cooper Sport 1.5 about 3 mins after gladly handing back over the transportation pod's keys, and on the same roads, the proper car was -in my opinion- a different league. Even my Mrs, who's only vaguely interested in cars, looked at me when she had a go and looked like she'd come out of a horror show.
The Tesla i went in for over an hour (unfortunately). Albeit with the neighbour beside me. You got that wham bam weird acceleration, but that's it. I recall going down the same roads in my ND a few hours later and it was almost a religious experience in comparison. The Tesla was a heavy oaf (seemed like 2 tonnes or something), soulless thing. Both of them felt like a fairground ride. The whiny, grating dodgem sound haunted me afterwards lol
My OWN experiences, and not what someone wants me to think, was that it's a bleak 'driving' future if those are what's only going to be available.
Your comment on '90% of people out there don't give a damn what they drive or how it drives, as long as it gets them from A to B.' may well be very true. Thing is I don't care what other people think of cars when I get my own, spending my own money.
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We're probably coming to the same conclusions but from different perspectives. I detest how governments, the media and alike have bullied people out of ICE vehicles when there is poor theory that they will make any meaningful difference to global warming. I do maintain that electric cars can be comfortable, practical, economical and convenient but only in certain and limited circumstances and a wholesale adoption of them is potentially disastrous for personal mobility - a fundamental element to democracy over the last century or so...
 
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