GR Yaris Balance of tuning and durability limits

[Michael Knight]

For street car I can understand not everyone wants to do quarter mile launches or 0-100km/h, but some measurements such as 50-130km/h, 80-120km/h or 100-200km/h still validate the claimed hp, othervise its more or less just bragging.

 

[p3.auto]

For street car I can understand not everyone wants to do quarter mile launches or 0-100km/h, but some measurements such as 50-130km/h, 80-120km/h or 100-200km/h still validate the claimed hp, othervise its more or less just bragging.

That's why trap speed and 60ft times are more interesting than the actual quarter mile times. Looks to be slow off the line and with a low trap speed too, doesn't add up.

 

[DrSetup]

I'm not sure what to think. On one side it sounds so cool that a smal three-cylinder can push +700hp but when they can't back up the numbers with for exampel a trapspeed I'm not impressed anymore.
Why bragging about big numbers but not being able to back it up?
Could it be that it's not optimized for the 1/4 sprint?
Turbo probably to big to have a usable powerband?
Anyway I hope the pretty small Yaris community dont fight over numbers and achievements but instead learning from each other so we can be even faster or claim even bigger numbers.
Cars are about having fun, let's have fun!

 

[p3.auto]

I'm not sure what to think. On one side it sounds so cool that a smal three-cylinder can push +700hp but when they can't back up the numbers with for exampel a trapspeed I'm not impressed anymore.
Why bragging about big numbers but not being able to back it up?
Could it be that it's not optimized for the 1/4 sprint?
Turbo probably to big to have a usable powerband?
Anyway I hope the pretty small Yaris community dont fight over numbers and achievements but instead learning from each other so we can be even faster or claim even bigger numbers.
Cars are about having fun, let's have fun!

Absolutely. My gut feeling is it’s a marketing exercise, rev to 8krpm with a massive turbo for a headline bhp figure, that’s what get sales. As I get older I’m less interested in power figures and more interested in real world performance

Ok final update. 1.65 60ft and 10.2 1/4 mile. Oh well, til next time

 

[Michael Knight]

Absolutely. My gut feeling is it’s a marketing exercise, rev to 8krpm with a massive turbo for a headline bhp figure, that’s what get sales. As I get older I’m less interested in power figures and more interested in real world performance

OT to the topic but I get most fun out from feeling good, not targetting to spesific numbers anymore.
Engine seems to be most happy in mid throttle 3-5krpm which is just the area I like to play with, so happy chap. No idea how much hp there is and car doesn't seem to be that fast when running against clock. but, as not racing fun-sector is the key! Actually quite seldom drive WOT runs anymore as it feels too aggressive, usually only on race track.

Understand the figures marketing in that sense that nowadays cars have so much hp that anything sub 500hp sounds low? Its silly world today.
Long gone are those days when 200hp was supercar levels in hot hatch or family saloon.

 

[p3.auto]

OT to the topic but I get most fun out from feeling good, not targetting to spesific numbers anymore.
Engine seems to be most happy in mid throttle 3-5krpm which is just the area I like to play with, so happy chap. No idea how much hp there is and car doesn't seem to be that fast when running against clock. but, as not racing fun-sector is the key! Actually quite seldom drive WOT runs anymore as it feels too aggressive, usually only on race track.

Understand the figures marketing in that sense that nowadays cars have so much hp that anything sub 500hp sounds low? Its silly world today.
Long gone are those days when 200hp was supercar levels in hot hatch or family saloon.

Agreed. I used to be all about the numbers but working with Fensport and Acme the last couple of years has opened my eyes more to driveability. Is my car the most powerful when compared to other cars with similar spec? Nah not likely. But I like how it drives, it flies on trackdays and won its class at the 1/4 mile recently. It does just fine, whether it’s 320,330,340hp doesn’t mean much to me any more

 

[PTARyan]

Good Morning!

It was bought to my attention there are a few on here bagging out Powertune and the Rodent Yaris, and I thought it might be worth while signing up to point out some facts for those armchair experts in here...

1. Yes, the car is stock bottom end - If you don't believe me, put $10k up and I'll pull it down in front of you and then take your money.
2. We tested the car for the first time on Wednesday night. The track was trash (can be seen from the 60') and there was no point turning the car right up if it wasn't going to get off the line. - I can assure you, the mph will be much higher than it is currently once the 60' is sorted.
3. Just remember how many times others needed to go to the track to run the numbers they have... This was the cars first outing with this setup.
4. I'm more than happy to post correction factors or whatever numbers you want to see, for those outside of Australia, the Mainline dyno is not like some of the others out there where you can put in a crazy correction factory to get an inflated number. - The dyno was taken to a recent GTR festival event, and the cars that went on the dyno were making the exact power they made at other shops.

I'm more than happy for constructive conversation, but if you want to bag us out, make sure you get your facts right, don't listen to hear say, and if you want to know what's really happening, why not go direct to the source instead of a competitor or someone that's getting information via Chinese whispers.

You guys have access to FB and IG and can very easily message the shop page and ask whatever questions you want...

 

[Gazooracingyaris]

Everyone has their own view of what's important/interesting.

Hopefully they're documenting their journey as I for one am keen to see the reasons why they're falling short of expectations moreso than I would be if they hit a 9.5 second pass out of the blocks.

As an aside I'm really keen to see this Ecutek tuning solution come out. I've had my own tuning done but I really get the impression that some of the more unknown areas of what parts of the ecu does to limit power are holding me back on the track so I'm excited to see if the Ecutek community can pull the curtain back on some of that info and give me all of the power all of the time.

 

[Onehp]

Everyone has their own view of what's important/interesting.

Hopefully they're documenting their journey as I for one am keen to see the reasons why they're falling short of expectations moreso than I would be if they hit a 9.5 second pass out of the blocks.

As an aside I'm really keen to see this Ecutek tuning solution come out. I've had my own tuning done but I really get the impression that some of the more unknown areas of what parts of the ecu does to limit power are holding me back on the track so I'm excited to see if the Ecutek community can pull the curtain back on some of that info and give me all of the power all of the time.

Could be calculating heat limits based on sensor data and which also vary with load, speed and duration amongst others. Which one one hand could be wrong and show too low values on a tuned car, risking damage. Or in case of proper flowing/cooling hardware, calculate too high and limit the car unnecessarily.

Also looking forward to what Ecutek can do, local JDM tuner knows their way around them. Outputting a lot more power can be a sign of better (cam, ignition etc) control, and then I would choose to turn it down a notch or two and focus on driveability.... Which is my current focus entirely with the programmable piggyback, good driveability and good logs in varying circumstances, where one can see how ecu shuffles around AFR, ignition and throttle to manage power and boost in different circumstances.

 

[p3.auto]

Don’t quote me on this as it’s second hand info from a couple of tuners but I was lead to believe the AutoTuner solution hadn’t cracked both ROMs and there were some limitations, namely around exhaust cam timing and DI/port injector split and duty cycles. One of the reasons I was always wary as I’m not convinced anyone knew at the time how these tables interacted with each other and the potential for overwrites through redundancy across the ROMs.

Again from what I’ve heard Ecutek have cracked all tables which means there’s now fine tuning of injection and cams available. Also that Kelford cams, injectors and potentially even bigger turbos could now be mapped at some stage. There’s a story I know of a guy going to a tuner to get cams timed on the stock ECU and they couldn’t do it, he had to go to a Syvecs. With any luck that won’t be the case going forward

 

[Ishk1]

Fun fact, my car was used as a donor when it was first cracked by auto tuner.
About 5-7 devs where plowing through the code at the time but the tables where tricky. What we learned was that the air sensor was a restrictor at the time. We did use the eventuri to test as well and made a 15 difference.
From what i know, the given tune (stage 1) was actually a conservative measure as they did not want to push to hard due to the corrections (to try and keep the engine within legal restrictions) the software was making all the time.
But using the standard ecu with different cams etc, i would stay away from the standard ecu as syvecs and motive have better correction software to keep the engine from crashing.

 

[Gazooracingyaris]

Could be calculating heat limits based on sensor data and which also vary with load, speed and duration amongst others. Which one one hand could be wrong and show too low values on a tuned car, risking damage. Or in case of proper flowing/cooling hardware, calculate too high and limit the car unnecessarily.

Yep, my tuner was very clear, he wasn't trying to make power at all costs, it makes power on the dyno, however I don't think it is translating to the track, once heat soak sets in etc.
Funnily enough, I was seeing the same issue (peak speeds reducing as the track sessions went on and the car got warmer) despite having a full intercooler and oil cooler upgrade along with the vented undertray. As soon as I replaced the OEM intake scoop with a forge one, I dropped over a second off my lap time. Overlaying the telemetry the braking points are all the same however the car just makes more power (and therefore speed) so I appear to have (to some extent) resolved the issue. My speeds are also constant through the sessions which is nice. The next step for me is valve springs and possibly light cams, mostly because at the moment we've set the boost to reduce to 1.5bar at 6500rpm, would be nice to be able to rev it out!

 

[p3.auto]

Yep, my tuner was very clear, he wasn't trying to make power at all costs, it makes power on the dyno, however I don't think it is translating to the track, once heat soak sets in etc.
Funnily enough, I was seeing the same issue (peak speeds reducing as the track sessions went on and the car got warmer) despite having a full intercooler and oil cooler upgrade along with the vented undertray. As soon as I replaced the OEM intake scoop with a forge one, I dropped over a second off my lap time. Overlaying the telemetry the braking points are all the same however the car just makes more power (and therefore speed) so I appear to have (to some extent) resolved the issue. My speeds are also constant through the sessions which is nice. The next step for me is valve springs and possibly light cams, mostly because at the moment we've set the boost to reduce to 1.5bar at 6500rpm, would be nice to be able to rev it out!

You’ll come up against the limits of the OEM vacuum actuator there, mine is weak as piss so boost is tapered off from 5.5krpm to redline, think it can only hold 1.6bar max at high rpm. Decat and no GPF means there’s no backpressure in the exhaust and the exhaust manifold pressure is blowing the wastegate open. Some people seem to have more luck than me, fingers crossed you’re one of them

 

[Onehp]

You’ll come up against the limits of the OEM vacuum actuator there, mine is weak as piss so boost is tapered off from 5.5krpm to redline, think it can only hold 1.6bar max at high rpm. Decat and no GPF means there’s no backpressure in the exhaust and the exhaust manifold pressure is blowing the wastegate open. Some people seem to have more luck than me, fingers crossed you’re one of them

Japans Revolution garage reversed the actuation of the WG iirc. Or just run a G25 with bypass WG.

 

[Onehp]

Yep, my tuner was very clear, he wasn't trying to make As soon as I replaced the OEM intake scoop with a forge one, I dropped over a second off my lap time.

Yep, that scoop does a good job on IAT's. Together with their better flowing turbo intake adaptor kit gives the benefits of aftermarket intakes but keeping OEM filtering and most under bonnet aesthetics, which I like a lot.

 

[p3.auto]

Japans Revolution garage reversed the actuation of the WG iirc. Or just run a G25 with bypass WG.

Honestly for the effort of getting the turbo off the car, once it’s off it won’t be going back on. Don’t see the point in modifying the OEM one for a few more psi at the top end when you’re half way to a bigger turbo.

I could convert to pressure or modify the arm a bit but… why?

 

[Onehp]

Honestly for the effort of getting the turbo off the car, once it’s off it won’t be going back on. Don’t see the point in modifying the OEM one for a few more psi at the top end when you’re half way to a bigger turbo.

I could convert to pressure or modify the arm a bit but… why?

Modest trackable builds? They went from hybrid back to stock for better response (over a year ago, don't know now), and even stock WG is a weak spot with lack of control/accuracy. But yes bit OTT but in a good way, like their search for weight.

 

[p3.auto]

Modest trackable builds? They went from hybrid back to stock for better response (over a year ago, don't know now), and even stock WG is a weak spot with lack of control/accuracy. But yes bit OTT but in a good way, like their search for weight.

Sorry I mean for me personally the work involved in modifying the actuator just isn’t worth the effort. Ideally it’s subframe off, drop the engine and take the turbo off all to gain.. maybe 10-20hp but have to redo all your wastegate management from scratch too.

If I was doing that I’d change to a pressure actuator, and if I was doing that I’d just fit a better turbo. Interested to hear of response as a reason to change back to stock, most use the OEM turbine and slap a G25-550 or 660 sized compressor on which if anything should be just as responsive.

Couple of places are doing full Garrett G25-550 cores into the OEM housing, a company I work with are developing one which is probably the direction I’d go

 

[Sekred]

Sorry I mean for me personally the work involved in modifying the actuator just isn’t worth the effort. Ideally it’s subframe off, drop the engine and take the turbo off all to gain.. maybe 10-20hp but have to redo all your wastegate management from scratch too.

If I was doing that I’d change to a pressure actuator, and if I was doing that I’d just fit a better turbo. Interested to hear of response as a reason to change back to stock, most use the OEM turbine and slap a G25-550 or 660 sized compressor on which if anything should be just as responsive.

Couple of places are doing full Garrett G25-550 cores into the OEM housing, a company I work with are developing one which is probably the direction I’d go

I assume you cannot get access to the WG actuator by removing the plastic upper and lower windscreen cowling?.
Anyone know?.

 

[Onehp]

I assume you cannot get access to the WG actuator by removing the plastic upper and lower windscreen cowling?.
Anyone know?.

Afaik the body (metal) runs just under those, so no help.