GR Yaris (Gen 2) GR Yaris Mk2 (MY2024->)
- Thread starter Michael Knight
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Michael Knight
Totally Hooked
- Thread starter
- #1,582
it will surely be a miracle if Toyota brings up a new petrol car platform. Maybe with their hydrogen story has big wings but EV sports car wins this battle. As their biggest rival has also gone full EV (Porsche Boxster?) would find it really bold move to make mid engined new car from Toyota. but they have done bold moves before, so why not?
Magnettico
Obsessed member
- Jun 1, 2023
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Let's see the prices here in Sweden.
I got my car the same week they released the first pictures and confirmations about the Mk2. Was happy to get the car, but of course "sad" that it was not the latest one. (and not as exclusive anymore)
But with this prices, actually happy that it was that way, I paid the equivalent of 40k eur, and that was really at the limit of what I could pay.
I got my car the same week they released the first pictures and confirmations about the Mk2. Was happy to get the car, but of course "sad" that it was not the latest one. (and not as exclusive anymore)
But with this prices, actually happy that it was that way, I paid the equivalent of 40k eur, and that was really at the limit of what I could pay.
cuddles
Obsessed member
- Feb 6, 2022
- 247
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The current GRY and GR86 are looking more of a keeper every day that people are talking about £45k+ as being the price of the new Mk2.
I don't say keeper because many can't afford the new one but it is and always will be the orriginal homologation special.
My head is now shouting at me to order more Lanoguard and do it every summer and keep mine immaculate. At 62 I could keep mine till I drop and it still be like new. That would actually be nice to do and be very satisfying to achieve. Just bought a Yaris cross as my daily so the GRY is the toy so can be kept nice.
Its easy to get pulled into the "must have the latest" but having the first and keeping it pristine if you can is also a nice thing to do. New cars last 30+ years now with good protection and care.
Some will sell their Mk1 and very quickly regret it.
The people buying good used Mk1 cars will be the real winners when the Mk2 comes out.
I don't say keeper because many can't afford the new one but it is and always will be the orriginal homologation special.
My head is now shouting at me to order more Lanoguard and do it every summer and keep mine immaculate. At 62 I could keep mine till I drop and it still be like new. That would actually be nice to do and be very satisfying to achieve. Just bought a Yaris cross as my daily so the GRY is the toy so can be kept nice.
Its easy to get pulled into the "must have the latest" but having the first and keeping it pristine if you can is also a nice thing to do. New cars last 30+ years now with good protection and care.
Some will sell their Mk1 and very quickly regret it.
The people buying good used Mk1 cars will be the real winners when the Mk2 comes out.
The Lancia Delta Integrale Evo wants a word
An Evo 2 is worth more than an evo 1, although the evo 1 is the original AND it's faster.DictionaryThe Lancia Delta Integrale Evo wants a word
noun: evolution;
the gradual development of something.
GR Yaris Evo 2
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Euge
Totally Hooked
Production mid engined hot hatches:
Peugeot 205 T16
Delta S4 Stradale
Renault 5 Turbo/Turbo2
Euge
Totally Hooked
I was the same, mine went on to the boat from Japan the day it was announced. Im kinda glad im getting the Gen 1, prefer front bumper and would rather save the 10k for some road trips in my GRY this year. Intrigued what Estonian prices will be still for the Gen2.
markku
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- Dec 10, 2023
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By looking at the latest, dire reports about the BEVs market (both new, and even worse, used ones), I'm pretty confident that Toyota will keep on working on ICE platforms (maybe not only "petrol"), since we have e-fuels that are working very well for carbon-zero targets (WRC cars are already running on e-fuels with great results), the concept that politicians all over the world should adopt as the real target for a feasible automotive sustainability.
Of course e-fuels are very expensive by now, but it's just a matter of widening their availability to make them go down to an affordable price, I guess.
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Michael Knight
Totally Hooked
- Thread starter
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they don't go that well with oil either, so affects to service intervals quite drastically
cuddles
Obsessed member
- Feb 6, 2022
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Toyota have shown off their new direct injection hydrogen engine - not the cell that they have had for years. Its an ICE engine but using hydrogen.
They have also anounced they have cracked the ignition problem with direct injection of amonia which they tried 20 years ago but couldn't get right. Now, the technology has solved that and they have been working with another company so two possible solutions for ICE cars.
Governments need to stop going 100% electric and give these companies incentives to look at and develop alternatives. As long as it is clean it doesn't matter. If they had done that 20 years ago we may already have hydrogen ICE cars and e-fuels.
I can't wait till they develop the powerfull ICE engine that works with direct injection of tap water. I'll have one of them.
They have also anounced they have cracked the ignition problem with direct injection of amonia which they tried 20 years ago but couldn't get right. Now, the technology has solved that and they have been working with another company so two possible solutions for ICE cars.
Governments need to stop going 100% electric and give these companies incentives to look at and develop alternatives. As long as it is clean it doesn't matter. If they had done that 20 years ago we may already have hydrogen ICE cars and e-fuels.
I can't wait till they develop the powerfull ICE engine that works with direct injection of tap water. I'll have one of them.
- Dec 27, 2021
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Hate to burst your bubble, but hydrogen was never going to be viable for passenger car transport. What little infrastructure and investment there was in that - almost all focused on fuel cells, not ICE - is now pretty much being wound down.
Showing off an H2 ICE Yaris was all good fun but really it was an engineering curiosity and marketing gimmick, not a serious pitch for the future of passenger motoring.
H2 for powering car is almost always going to be a poor or very poor choice, regardless of what coloured euphemism you choose.
- Green - We simply don't have (and likely will never have) the spare energy to make this at scale, and if we did it would be vastly more efficient to just...feed that energy to the grid and charge a BEV!
- Blue - Still results in CO2 emissions under even the most optimistic of CCS scenarios (none of which really exist today anyway), plus see 1. where the vast energy required to produce blue H2 makes the equation even more lopsided.
- Grey - Yeah, let's not go there
Is it a realistic prospect for anything other than edge cases? Not a chance. And that's before you get into storage, distribution, packaging demands etc.
eFuels are similar. They definitely have uses in motorsport and for (rich!) enthusiasts to power their trinkets while feeling good about themselves
but there is no possibility of manufacturing them at any kind of scale for general transportation.The end-to-end production is so horribly inefficient that again, it will always be better just to use that energy just to power cars directly. And that's with today's first generation EVs, which I'm sure in 15 years will look like dinosaurs.
For us enthusiasts, maybe spunking £250+ on a tank of eFuel to go for a Sunday blat is something we could countenance, but for normal consumers going to work, Tesco, taking the kids to football etc., there will only ever be one winner between a car that costs £50 in fuel to go 100 miles vs. one that might cost £1.50 to go the same distance.
I like driving my silly little broom-broom car and will continue to do so for as long as I'm able, but not accepting that the future of non-enthusiast personal transport is anything other than electric-powered is pretty futile at this point, for many reasons.
There is litteraly no advantage of H2 over battery-EV's. Why would governments give incentives for developing a worse solution than the available solutions?
Sam
Totally Hooked
- Dec 6, 2021
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100% and very well articulated @Duke
If wanted to be conspiratorial about it I'd say hydrogen is a play by incumbent energy industry players to maintain centralised control of the transportation energy market.
Genuinely feels like all the arguments for maintaining ICE vs EV are downstream of the basic opinion "EV no go brrm, me no like EV"
Thanks for writing that at @Duke , save me from repeating myself ad nauseumHate to burst your bubble, but hydrogen was never going to be viable for passenger car transport. What little infrastructure and investment there was in that - almost all focused on fuel cells, not ICE - is now pretty much being wound down.
Showing off an H2 ICE Yaris was all good fun but really it was an engineering curiosity and marketing gimmick, not a serious pitch for the future of passenger motoring.
H2 for powering car is almost always going to be a poor or very poor choice, regardless of what coloured euphemism you choose.
Is green/blue hydrogen technically feasible? Sure.
- Green - We simply don't have (and likely will never have) the spare energy to make this at scale, and if we did it would be vastly more efficient to just...feed that energy to the grid and charge a BEV!
- Blue - Still results in CO2 emissions under even the most optimistic of CCS scenarios (none of which really exist today anyway), plus see 1. where the vast energy required to produce blue H2 makes the equation even more lopsided.
- Grey - Yeah, let's not go there
Is it a realistic prospect for anything other than edge cases? Not a chance. And that's before you get into storage, distribution, packaging demands etc.
eFuels are similar. They definitely have uses in motorsport and for (rich!) enthusiasts to power their trinkets while feeling good about themselves
The end-to-end production is so horribly inefficient that again, it will always be better just to use that energy just to power cars directly. And that's with today's first generation EVs, which I'm sure in 15 years will look like dinosaurs.
For us enthusiasts, maybe spunking £250+ on a tank of eFuel to go for a Sunday blat is something we could countenance, but for normal consumers going to work, Tesco, taking the kids to football etc., there will only ever be one winner between a car that costs £50 in fuel to go 100 miles vs. one that might cost £1.50 to go the same distance.
I like driving my silly little broom-broom car and will continue to do so for as long as I'm able, but not accepting that the future of non-enthusiast personal transport is anything other than electric-powered is pretty futile at this point, for many reasons.
Fun fact: I'm already there, my driving hobby car literally costs 20x as much per mile to fuel already compared to our family EV. And I love this little car but that belly button staring fun doesn't change what I see when I look up and see the big picture...
GRandemakina
Dedicated member
Batteries have a long way to improve... to mention a few: price, energy density (kWh/Kg), safety and... polution!
That's why makes sense to (still) search for alternatives - incl H2.
To add, burning H2 in a ICE engine as discussed here, drops the efficiency below that of power to liquid petrol at ~10% overall efficiency. Meaning that with the same electricity generated, you can power 8 EV's for every H2 ICE car. Rediculous basically across the line. There is some small hope there are smarter ways of generating hydrogen but most of those "announcements" are very unrealistic in themselves for large scale generation....
Looking forward to some fun EV's, they are coming...
Sam
Totally Hooked
- Dec 6, 2021
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Take a look at cost and weight curves for batteries and infer the future.
Sam
Totally Hooked
- Dec 6, 2021
- 485
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Yep, same thing with joules per mile.
Average Tesla will go 4x the mileage of an average ICE car for the same energy input. So even if the energy for an EV is generated with fossil fuels(gas, coal) it's 4x more efficient and the emissions are localised instead of distributed.
