GR86 Engine Failure

[Kiwi Greg]

If I did get offered one I’ll ask for the GR Sport HiLux auto instead as I’m watching the Dakar

Hold out for the real GR Hilux, 3.3 TT V6 Diesel.........hell I hope they make it.....

 

[Kosh]

Here in Belgium they reply
"RTV?"

Because its NOT AN ISSUE

 

[CTG 300]

Because its NOT AN ISSUE

Yet... Here's hoping, though, that you are right about that.

 

[Kosh]

Yet... Here's hoping, though, that you are right about that.

Why would they change a one-sided pick up to a five-sided, if they dont know about sealant comming off?

 

[CTG 300]

Why would they change a one-sided pick to a sided, if they don't know about sealant coming off?

That's a fair point - insofar as you are aware, when was that modification introduced?

 

[Kosh]

That's a fair point - insofar as you are aware, when was that modification introduced?

With the GR86/BRZ2

 

[WpR]

Because its NOT AN ISSUE

Issue or not, if they get questions about it at least they can explain it.
My dipstick is full of RTV as well, I don't make drama about it but either they act like they don't know the reason and implications, or they really don't know about it (which would be worrying, because then it COULD be an issue).

 

[Kosh]

Issue or not, if they get questions about it at least they can explain it.
My dipstick is full of RTV as well, I don't make drama about it but either they act like they don't know the reason and implications, or they really don't know about it (which would be worrying, because then it COULD be an issue).

The guys you are talking to are no engineers.
Just non-car-people at a service hotline/chat, that look up the questions you ask them in a kind-of database.

If there is no entry about a topic, they don't have (official) information about it. Even if they are interested personally, if there is official information, they will say, that they don't know about it.

Since there are no reported engine failures, this is not a topic in first level support.

Its also special in this case, because the car is engineered and built by Subaru and so they have less information as for a Toyota-built car.
But usually those guys have no information about that deep technical data at all.

Its just not their job to know about this.


The sealant topic has been greatly exaggerated by our american friends and there is still no single car where it has been found as THE reason for an engine failure.
AFAIK there are now two cars, where it may have played a role.
Both where "driven extremly" at motorsport sessions, which is not the usecase for the car.
The first one got a replacement engine on Toyotas cost. The second one is relativly new, its not decided, yet.

So unless you don't abuse the car, it will not be an issue.
If you take it to track regularly, you have to make some modifications, as for every other street car!

I don't see engines falling appart every day, only some "loud" people from oversees, who pretend to be smarter than Subarus and Toyotas engineers.

As i said: The Gen2-pickup is designed to catch stuff. We find sealand in that pickup, so maybe its just working ?!

 

[CTG 300]

Just a quick point here - notwithstanding that the modified oil pickup on the Subaru FA24D engines "is designed to catch stuff" the underlying problem here is surely that either too much RTV sealant is being applied during the manufacturing process and/or that, based on the photographic evidence which has been published to date, the RTV sealant is breaking off and being caught. That said, I am not an Automobile Engineer, so by all means correct me if that is wrong.

 

[Kosh]

Just a quick point here - notwithstanding that the modified oil pickup on the Subaru FA24D engines "is designed to catch stuff" the underlying problem here is surely that either too much RTV sealant is being applied during the manufacturing process and/or that, based on the photographic evidence which has been published to date, the RTV sealant is breaking off and being caught. That said, I am not an Automobile Engineer, so by all means correct me if that is wrong.

AFAIK there are two possibilities.

1: use too less sealant and risk the engine beeing not sealed properly
2: use too much sealant and catch the pieces, which fall off

"use the exact right amount of sealant" seems not to be possible...

 

[CTG 300]

AFAIK there are two possibilities.

1: use too less sealant and risk the engine being not sealed properly
2: use too much sealant and catch the pieces, which fall off

"use the exact right amount of sealant" seems not to be possible...

Yes, I agree with your reasoning there, but would add two more possibilities:

1) if, as seems probable in this day and age, the sealant is applied by a robot, then perhaps that robot needs to be re-designed and/or re-programmed to ensure that precisely the correct amount is applied.

2) there might also be a problem with the chemical composition of the RTV sealant used which could be altered to minimise the risk of the sealant breaking down.

Anyway, for my part, I still believe that both Subaru and Toyota Motor Corporation really should address any underlying issues with the RTV sealant used...

 

[Kosh]

Yes, I agree with your reasoning there, but would add two more possibilities:

1) if, as seems probable in this day and age, the sealant is applied by a robot, then perhaps that robot needs to be re-designed and/or re-programmed to ensure that precisely the correct amount is applied.

2) there might also be a problem with the chemical composition of the RTV sealant used which could be altered to minimise the risk of the sealant breaking down.

Anyway, for my part, I still believe that both Subaru and Toyota Motor Corporation really should address any underlying issues with the RTV sealant used...

I would rule out 1) because they redesigned the pickup. They don't do that for no reason.
Also this topic is known and they would have reprogrammed that robots (shoudl eb more than one ) long time ago.

The also have this "issue" with other engines...

 

[WpR]

I would rule out 1) because they redesigned the pickup. They don't do that for no reason.
Also this topic is known and they would have reprogrammed that robots (shoudl eb more than one ) long time ago.

The also have this "issue" with other engines...

Subtle nuance: Subaru has this issue with other engines
Other manufacturers seem to know how to lay a nice bead without RTV blobbing out on the inside.

 

[CTG 300]

I would rule out 1) because they redesigned the pickup. They don't do that for no reason.
Also this topic is known and they would have reprogrammed that robots (should be more than one ) long time ago.

The also have this "issue" with other engines...

Yes, noted and agreed - if you are right, though, then where is the evidence of that in the public domain?

Unfortunately, I very much doubt that we will ever have a full explanation of both the underlying cause of the apparent problems with the RTV sealant and what steps have been taken to mitigate the risks involved from either Subaru or Toyota Motor Corporation...

 

[ZN8]

AFAIK there are two possibilities.

1: use too less sealant and risk the engine beeing not sealed properly
2: use too much sealant and catch the pieces, which fall off

"use the exact right amount of sealant" seems not to be possible...

I don't think it's necessarily a problem with quantity, more to do with cure time. If the 2 matting surfaces are compressed together too soon the RTV is still too wet and it will just ooze out the sides. From personal experience you need to allow it cure enough that it becomes more like rubber before you fully tighten up the 2 surfaces.

 

[Kosh]

Yes, noted and agreed - if you are right, though, then where is the evidence of that in the public domain?

Unfortunately, I very much doubt that we will ever have a full explanation of both the underlying cause of the apparent problems with the RTV sealant and what steps have been taken to mitigate the risks involved from either Subaru or Toyota Motor Corporation...

Hmm.
As long, as it works, they don't have to tell anybody why they do the things the way they do it.

 

[CTG 300]

Hmm.
As long as it works, they don't have to tell anybody why they do the things the way they do it.

Yes, that's true but, to my mind at least, any company which chooses not to put that type of information into the public domain does risk coming across as being pretty disingenuous.

 

[Ecsrobin]

Yes, that's true but, to my mind at least, any company which chooses not to put that type of information into the public domain does risk coming across as being pretty disingenuous.

I think you’re worrying too much about a problem that may or may not happen (in your case won’t happen as you’ve cancelled your order) but clearly it’s worried you enough to take the time to make calls and send emails about the matter.

Car manufacturers aren’t stupid they’ll make changes where they see fit bit they don’t have to tell you about what they’ve done.

Instead of worrying about what ifs get out there enjoy yourself and if a fault arises worry about it then.

 

[CTG 300]

I think you’re worrying too much about a problem that may or may not happen (in your case won’t happen as you’ve cancelled your order) but clearly it’s worried you enough to take the time to make calls and send emails about the matter.

Car manufacturers aren’t stupid they’ll make changes where they see fit bit they don’t have to tell you about what they’ve done.

Instead of worrying about what ifs get out there enjoy yourself and if a fault arises worry about it then.

Well, with respect, at 69-years-old I am hopefully old enough to know my own mind and what motivates me!

I was, as indicated in my previous posts on this thread, simply seeking to ensure TGB was on notice that the members of this forum were fully informed about the RTV sealant issue. I have, at least, succeeded in that objective and obtained formal confirmation about the Warranty position from TGB.

Maybe, just maybe, I am a little more altruistic than what is nowadays the norm...

 

[Kosh]

Well, with respect, at 69-years-old I am hopefully old enough to know my own mind and what motivates me!

I was, as indicated in my previous posts on this thread, simply seeking to ensure TGB was on notice that the members of this forum were fully informed about the RTV sealant issue. I have, at least, succeeded in that objective and obtained formal confirmation about the Warranty position from TGB.

Maybe, just maybe, I am a little more altruistic than what is nowadays the norm...

The point is, that there is no issue.
At least not yet.