Michael Knight
Totally Hooked
Using weldspeed manifold improved the mid range response so I hardly have any lag - of course turbo has its best operting window btw 4-6k but pulls well also from lower rpm.
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GR Yaris Intercooler performance and lag
- Thread starter Onehp
- Start date
Michael Knight
Totally Hooked
adding more flowing exhaust has improved car's response quite a bit. with HJS cat turbo spools rather nicely.
Hi all,
Are there any aftermarket options that improve cooling while maintaining similar lag and response to the factory intercooler?
I noticed Forge claim their intercooler has reduced lag and better response but don't know how that's possible with a larger intercooler.
www.forgemotorsport.co.uk
Are there any aftermarket options that improve cooling while maintaining similar lag and response to the factory intercooler?
I noticed Forge claim their intercooler has reduced lag and better response but don't know how that's possible with a larger intercooler.
Toyota Yaris GR Intercooler | FMINT25 | Forge Motorsport
Gains of 10bhp and 10lb/ft Temperature drops of up to 20°C Reduced turbo lag, increased response Greater overall surface area for...
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- Thread starter
- #64
It's already been discussed here. It's simple physics. There is the case where the IC is overheated and then a better IC will help reduce lag, but all else the same, more volume will take longer time to increase pressure. It's only a matter of tenths of a second, depending on driving that doesn't matter at all, or it does...
So an intercooler with similar volume but greater frontal area would be ideal?
Try C-Tec its the best intercooler by far!
- Thread starter
- #67
For lag on a car running hot, yes. If temps are ok, stay stock.
For top end power, larger volume and related much less pressure drop, can be more beneficial.
Like everything it's a compromise.
Looks nice but I'd imagine fairly expensive to ship to Australia.
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- Thread starter
- #69
Based on what? The squared of end tanks don't look at all impressive from a flow perspective at least, dumping a high speed flow in an open volume without transitions is one of the worst sins in flow optimisation... close second is cramming in slow flowing flow from the tank into a pipe without transitions on the other end. Nor is the height special. Let's hope the core is top quality then... (can't judge that...)
What are your thoughts on the PWR? https://pwrshop.au/products/toyota-...ight-racer-intercooler?variant=47396972789993
- Thread starter
- #71
Look similar to most other offerings. Tanks look ok, core is light tube and fin as are most the other more exepensive offerings. Unfortunately very hard to judge actual IC performance as there are no specs (except a few mentioned before) or comparison tests, and dyno's from different corners of the world are very blunt comparison tools. If you know the manufacturer and they are local, that counts for something too, in the end the biggest upgrade is upgrading, differences between upgraded IC are not so easy to compare, but we can at least try to pick one that is as close as possible to the goals of the build...
Hi the core is Garret, and from the "butt" dyno seems to have a positive effect. Acknowledge its not a very informed review, but the unit seems a quality piece of kit and look OEM (Which i like). I'm planning on dyno sessions soon, so may be be able to offer some data!
From my experience: I installed the Stage 3 Airtec intercooler, with the upgraded bigger pipes all around.
I was expecting to have some increased lag, but for my surprise, the lag is the same, or even reduced!
The car mods at the time were only:
I was expecting to have some increased lag, but for my surprise, the lag is the same, or even reduced!
The car mods at the time were only:
- Closed Air intake (Airtec)
- Stiffer lowe engine/gear mount (Cusco)
- Stock ECU and no tuning
That is good to hear, my concern with the big coolers like the Airtec and process west is the weight right over the nose.
Michael Knight
Totally Hooked
not that big issue, provides better weight transfer on brakes
CerN
Totally Hooked
- Feb 17, 2023
- 337
- 1,098
Been considering the Airtec intercooler, since the volume increase is modest compared to many of the others, and the price is on the lower end.
However, it seems like it is quite heavy? Anyone know how much heavier it is than stock, and how much it actually weighs?
Are we talking several kilos over the Wagner for example?
Any other intercoolers out there that don't massively increase volume, which add less weight, and don't cost a fortune?
I know the do88 comes highly recommended, but it's expensive, and it requires cutting various plastic air guides.
However, it seems like it is quite heavy? Anyone know how much heavier it is than stock, and how much it actually weighs?
Are we talking several kilos over the Wagner for example?
Any other intercoolers out there that don't massively increase volume, which add less weight, and don't cost a fortune?
I know the do88 comes highly recommended, but it's expensive, and it requires cutting various plastic air guides.
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Michael Knight
Totally Hooked
any interested here for WMI kit? just thinking it could be nice addition to cool charge air and make life easier for turbo.
Altocumulus
Obsessed member
- Jul 16, 2024
- 164
- 254
I don't think you'll find any aftermarket intercooler that weighs less than stock, as the stock unit has plastic end tanks and all aftermarket options are larger.
I fitted an Airtec, at a guess it weighs around 6-8 kg more than stock (it's also around 60% bigger). The Airtec performs well: the intake temps are reduced over stock (I logged this at the time) and I get much less heat soak (and associated reduced power and response) in warm/hot weather, no noticeable increase in lag. Well made, clear fitting instructions, no cutting.
I wasn't happy with engine bay heat management in stock form, and the intercooler and printed airbox snorkel have helped a lot in this regard. The reduction in air intake temp is worth the additional weight to me. I have an Ecutek tune to match now, and the car is rapid at the track.
I got the Airtec on sale - there was no other aftermarket intercooler available from a reputable brand anywhere close to the price I paid.
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sixtentouge
Totally Hooked
- Aug 28, 2023
- 206
- 839
I didn't read through all four pages of this thread, so...
I've seen loads of calculations done by people showing that adding a larger intercooler and charge piping should increase lag, but in general, it's just not true. On just the surface, the volume of air the turbocharger produces makes adding a larger intercooler and charge piping a non-thing where "lag" is concerned.
But that's not the whole story. When you add a larger volume for the engine to take a "gulp" of air from, that can make a huge difference in turbo response. One stunning example was way back in the day, when I would ditch the stock water-to-air intercooler on the ST185 and ST205 Celica for a big front mount and 60-70mm piping. Boost threshold at every RMP on full-throttle transient was massively improved over the small cooler on top of the engine.
Surface area is more important than thickness where cooling of the charge is concerned. On the order of requiring double the thickness to gain what 25% more surface area will achieve. Additional thickness adds flow volume, which reduces pressure drop.
Speaking of pressure drop... The large HKS intercooler only shows a 4kPa (0.6psi) pressure drop at 7,000rpm on a stock engine. That's not more boost, as the boost target is set for manifold pressure. We're talking the turbo is working 4kPa harder, which is basically nothing. HKS shows 6HP, but they're showing a 30°C difference in outlet temperature at 7,000 RPM, which is wildly optimistic in the real world, unless the stock intercooler is heat soaked. And this is the draw back of the stock intercooler. It's very good for a mostly stock engine, but it suffers from heat soak. This is the reason Toyota put the spray system on the RZHP. With a water spray system, you won't really gain any HP from "cooling," you just won't lose it to heat soak.
I've seen loads of calculations done by people showing that adding a larger intercooler and charge piping should increase lag, but in general, it's just not true. On just the surface, the volume of air the turbocharger produces makes adding a larger intercooler and charge piping a non-thing where "lag" is concerned.
But that's not the whole story. When you add a larger volume for the engine to take a "gulp" of air from, that can make a huge difference in turbo response. One stunning example was way back in the day, when I would ditch the stock water-to-air intercooler on the ST185 and ST205 Celica for a big front mount and 60-70mm piping. Boost threshold at every RMP on full-throttle transient was massively improved over the small cooler on top of the engine.
Surface area is more important than thickness where cooling of the charge is concerned. On the order of requiring double the thickness to gain what 25% more surface area will achieve. Additional thickness adds flow volume, which reduces pressure drop.
Speaking of pressure drop... The large HKS intercooler only shows a 4kPa (0.6psi) pressure drop at 7,000rpm on a stock engine. That's not more boost, as the boost target is set for manifold pressure. We're talking the turbo is working 4kPa harder, which is basically nothing. HKS shows 6HP, but they're showing a 30°C difference in outlet temperature at 7,000 RPM, which is wildly optimistic in the real world, unless the stock intercooler is heat soaked. And this is the draw back of the stock intercooler. It's very good for a mostly stock engine, but it suffers from heat soak. This is the reason Toyota put the spray system on the RZHP. With a water spray system, you won't really gain any HP from "cooling," you just won't lose it to heat soak.
