Electric Cars

I bet the MEP's and all those unelected shysters in the Commission don't have to queue up for an hour to get on a Supercharger. Same with our cretinous politicians here. Green future? Green Hell! None of this works without infrastructure!!!

I am seriously considering selling the Tesla and driving a 40+ year old classic car - no road tax, no MOT and in a few years, when politicians are crucifying electric car drivers for 'destroying the planet 'cos don't you know those batteries are so bad for the environment', in the way they demonise diesel drivers now, by then we'll have synthetic fuels and hydrogen and something else on the horizon to keep the old dinosaurs on the road.

Rant over! (partially influenced by having to queue AGAIN at a Supercharger! Regular occurrence!)
 
Rant over! (partially influenced by having to queue AGAIN at a Supercharger! Regular occurrence!)
How long are you in the queue for & how long does it take to charge for X range ?

We are being "pushed" the same way here, which seems so silly given our total population, how it is spread out over the country, vehicle use & distances traveled

Lets not mention the lack of infrastructure or the fact we don't have enough electricity here & have to use imported coal now just to keep up :eek:
 
The longest I’ve waited to get onto a charger is just over an hour. Then it’s another half an hour at least on a Supercharger. Anything with a charging speed below 50kW and you’ll be tethered to it for hours - regardless of what you’re driving.

The Tesla has some great tech and it’s exceptionally easy to drive, particularly on motorways. But real world I’m getting less than 3 miles per kW. If a kW costs 75p or more that’s the equivalent of 25-30mpg in an ICE vehicle. It’s just not good enough. Other electric vehicles are usually stuck using chargers like Ionity etc which are over £1 a kW. Crazy.
 
chargers like Ionity etc which are over £1 a kW. Crazy.
Ouch.... Over here with a small monthly fee (1st year free on many brands), it's 25 pence/kWh for a 350kW charger.... And our EV6 does 20-80% in 15/20min (summer/winter with preheating).... Usually the pee/coffee break takes longer....

Things will need to improve over there....
 
The longest I’ve waited to get onto a charger is just over an hour. Then it’s another half an hour at least on a Supercharger. Anything with a charging speed below 50kW and you’ll be tethered to it for hours - regardless of what you’re driving.

The Tesla has some great tech and it’s exceptionally easy to drive, particularly on motorways. But real world I’m getting less than 3 miles per kW. If a kW costs 75p or more that’s the equivalent of 25-30mpg in an ICE vehicle. It’s just not good enough. Other electric vehicles are usually stuck using chargers like Ionity etc which are over £1 a kW. Crazy.
Sounds awesome :eek:

Something to look forward too 🤬

The cost of electricity will only go up & then they will put road user charges on making it even worse :(
 
Ouch.... Over here with a small monthly fee (1st year free on many brands), it's 25 pence/kWh for a 350kW charger.... And our EV6 does 20-80% in 15/20min (summer/winter with preheating).... Usually the pee/coffee break takes longer....

Things will need to improve over there....
On a Supercharger you can certainly gain 60% in 15-20 minutes, provided that only half of them are being used. At capacity (which they often are), the charge rate drops by half or more, so the wait gets longer and the queues get bigger…
 
On a Supercharger you can certainly gain 60% in 15-20 minutes, provided that only half of them are being used.
No such limitations on Ionity here. But they are quite popular due to being cheap and fast = queue at peak times.
 
Interesting read this thread, I think they can be decent / good if they suit your lifestyle and access to reasonably priced charging.

I recently got a Kia Niro EV (new facelift one, looks much better than the original).

The car is on a business lease, makes total sense at the moment with BIK being so low and half of the VAT recoverable and the cost of this car is around £40k compared to £60k plus for German / Teslas makes it a cost effective ish solution for electric motoring.

Getting it was a pain, waited 6 months, wrong car was delivered (cock up by the dealership they ordered a petrol hybrid card instead of the electric) so I was given an older Niro EV for free for two months while the right car was on its way. Finally got the right car about a month ago. But that said I waited 3x longer for the GR!

So I've been living with the electric car for 2-3 months now and I can currently charge for free in Glasgow where I work Monday - Friday (Council ran chargers are all free until April) and I occasionally charge at home if I need to at the weekend. So costs of running it have been almost £0 bar 3-4 partial charges at home. There are 6 22kw chargers by my work and people are pretty good usually at moving their cars once charged, I'm yet to turn up and not be able to charge.

Charging it during the day while working on the 11kw onboard charger is fine for me longest it has taken is 6 hours when it was on 10% battery, but I can see from above the issues you get if you do long journeys often and rely on fast charging at excessive rates.

I've tried a few faster chargers with various success but the lower temperatures up in Scotland mean it usually won't charge any faster than 22kw even if it is on a 50kw or above charger. Not great, but I knew this may be a problem going into buying it and the bulk of my driving doesn't require it.

Yet to do a long trip in it (I do a 500 mile journey to Plymouth a few times a year usually) and I'm planning to do the first one with a lot of contingency built in.

I do think the price per KWH at fast chargers are excessive, and I guess you could liken it to higher petrol prices at service stations, but hopefully in time competition will bring the cost down a little. The way I see it though for me, I would only use these very few times a year so on average my running costs will still be much lower than a petrol car.

I do wish I had opted for the built in heat pump, often wonder if I would get more miles per KWH with it. On my usual commute at the moment with the heating on its around 2.9-3.0 kwh and 3.3 kWh without it. On the 64KWH battery that is about a 26 mile loss over a whole journey.

Using the heated seats and steering wheel doesn't seem to have any effect but isn't quite the same as having the heating on!

Once the free charging goes near me I think I will be able to charge a little slower off the actual building I'm in for free, working that one out with my landlord just now. And at home I'm getting solar panels and a battery so will switch to an eco 7 rate and get a cheaper night rate to charge the car if needed (around 11p per KWH at the moment).

My overall experience is that this isn't something you can just swap out from an ICE car and expect to work. There is an adjustment and a change in mentality around driving it, being able to use slower chargers when you know you are somewhere for a few hours.

Will update this when I do a long journey!
 
I can see the attraction if you can charge for free or at reduced cost at work, this will not be available forever, it's like the free charging in cities until April once there is a reasonable uptake of electric the enticement will be removed and then they have you. If there was even a 50% uptake of EV use, there isn't enough electric being produced to service the market.
 
I can see the attraction if you can charge for free or at reduced cost at work, this will not be available forever, it's like the free charging in cities until April once there is a reasonable uptake of electric the enticement will be removed and then they have you. If there was even a 50% uptake of EV use, there isn't enough electric being produced to service the market.
Yeah totally agree, it is not going to be for everyone right now and for some people ever.

I think it won’t ever be a complete switch to electric, honestly think hydrogen will have a part to play along with less people driving in general and some petrol and diesel vehicles in use for a while yet.

All these goals are aspirational, have to aim high I guess to get somewhere close.

If you haven’t yet I’d recommend watching guy martins programme about power it was an interesting down to earth look at our grid and the future.
 
Little bit OT but relates to the topic what options we have in the future.
European Commission (EC) and Germany announced a deal to allow the sale of combustion engine vehicles that run on e-fuels after the 2035 ban.
This is good news for petrolheads as it gives options to keep our motors running.

 
Little bit OT but relates to the topic what options we have in the future.
European Commission (EC) and Germany announced a deal to allow the sale of combustion engine vehicles that run on e-fuels after the 2035 ban.
This is good news for petrolheads as it gives options to keep our motors running.

They will need to have some system to assure these new motors aren't using old gasoline/diesel, guess they will solve it by then.
 
They will need to have some system to assure these new motors aren't using old gasoline/diesel, guess they will solve it by then.
can be tricky. but, if that is only gasoline that is available then its easy. otherwise will be difficult to control
 
Na, easy, just change the shape of the fuel nozzle for synthetic vegan ultra green fuels, square peg in a round hole situation.
 
I am not surprised at all by this news.
Then you won't be suprised by the latest report by German institute Fraunhofer ISI that say e-fuels are mostly nonsense and terribly ineffective. Of the 100% electricity produced, only approx 10% reaches the wheels of the cars. For a BEV the number is approx 70%. This means BEV is 7 times (or 600%) more effective and this will be reflected in the price. Also the cars themselves risk to be very expensive, as the problems with soot (DPF/GPF) and NOx (diesel gate but now also required for "e-gasoline") remain due to combustion and will require costly emission control to make them "emission free" (as required).

This ineffectiveness will be reflected in the cost of use.
By the way, using hydrogen directly in an ICE has very similar problems to e-fuels and is only slightly less ineffective....

I personally see a use case when these e-fuels can store energy when sustainable energy production is 'free' (sunny windy days). But by design, the more e-fuels are needed, the higher the electricity demand will be in a very high feedback loop ref price which in turn will quickly reduce it's desirability, so it naturally will stabilise at small volumes and probably only be adopted for the supercars/hypercars of this world, which never made objective sense in the first place.... Which was probably the point for Germany and Italy and EU. Likelyhood of A to B transportation on e-fuels is close to zero.

Unless someone has a incredible desire to run their oldtimer GR Yaris through an e. g. snowstorm commute and is willling to pay > 10x more for the pleasure. Come to think of it, with the cheap charging I do at home for our BEV, this is already 100% the case today for me 😅
 
Last edited:
In theory sun and wind power are good options, but not stable enough for full scale use. We are already now challenged with electricity prices if there is no wind, not to mention if electricity consumption would be doubled or tripled. There is no straight forward answer, so likely both e-fuel/hydrogen and electric vehicles will be there for a while.

Maybe it helps if battery tech improves and makes them more effective and/or not that resource dependant/consuming (lithium etc).
 
Personally, I don't care super much for the efficiency to wheels argument. I am sure eating nothing but gruel, and vitamin tablets is the most energy efficient way of feeding humanity too.

Renewable is great until there is a windless night... We needed to be building nuclear plants decades ago in the UK for the demand bump, yet we are closing them and only building partial replacement. All this nonsense about adjusting rates based on demand and battery storage at properties etc is f'ing daft (cost, material usage) when we essentially have the technology to add much more power into the system already.

Here's hoping also they the fusion future that is only twenty years away is actually ticking down for once. Then maybe we can no guilt run carbon dioxide reclaimers

If I'm honest considering the utter crap of utilities in this country maybe making them public would be a good idea because tbh it'd probably cost us less to build it via tax so we can subsidise the energy cost rather than putting that cash into some companies pocket.
 
Back
Top