GR Yaris Driving mistakes and tipps
- Thread starter Nanth
- Start date
Lauren
Totally Hooked
I think we've all had a situation where we realise we are slightly too hot into a corner or if you don't know the road, the corner tightens in the middle. The better option is to balance the throttle, holding a steady speed as this allows you to get all the grip out of the loaded tyres. That does take commitment.
Alternatively ease off the the throttle, as going round a corner will quickly reduce your speed due to friction. These cars like to turn on the brakes, which is great until it happens unexpectedly. You can brake but with finesse just to ease the speed down further. When you think about it you were probably just a little bit too fast, so losing 5mph or 10mph as you ease the throttle will probably be enough to make things comfortable again.
Braking IMO is an absolute art as is driving. Learning that finesse especially on the brakes and never standing on them except in an emergency is well worth the effort to learn.
It's a good idea to go on track and get tuition or do a drive limits day to help you develop those skills of how to recover a slide safely and confidently. We all have to start somewhere with this.
Alternatively ease off the the throttle, as going round a corner will quickly reduce your speed due to friction. These cars like to turn on the brakes, which is great until it happens unexpectedly. You can brake but with finesse just to ease the speed down further. When you think about it you were probably just a little bit too fast, so losing 5mph or 10mph as you ease the throttle will probably be enough to make things comfortable again.
Braking IMO is an absolute art as is driving. Learning that finesse especially on the brakes and never standing on them except in an emergency is well worth the effort to learn.
It's a good idea to go on track and get tuition or do a drive limits day to help you develop those skills of how to recover a slide safely and confidently. We all have to start somewhere with this.
The difficulty with the hard braking technique during overspeed in entry is that you really rather have to commit on the brake, half assing it is not an option. From memory it was taught as a last resort to scrub speed if you realised you were about to have a brown trouser moment, as in, you realise you're 20mph over your entry speed and it's going into oversteer city otherwise.
I think everyone on the day answered 'you'll spin' if you hit the brake once you're already oversteering, but if you brake hard enough, you can essentially remedy the oversteer by inducing understeer. I was very surprised it actually worked.
Is it the best tool in the toolbox? Probably not. Is it still useful.? Sure.
Like any advanced driving technique, probably best to have practiced it extensively before you need it though.
Whilst I still haven't done so yet, Drive Limits actually gave me confidence one day even in rainy conditions I could go full assist off one day, even in 30/70. After all, I did get round the track and pretty decent chat a few times without spinning (and it defo attempting to go). I'm a naturally cautious beaver, and I try to learn a lot before committing. After all, I've never had AWD or even a rear biased car before, straight into assist off at six months seems a bit silly to me.
I think everyone on the day answered 'you'll spin' if you hit the brake once you're already oversteering, but if you brake hard enough, you can essentially remedy the oversteer by inducing understeer. I was very surprised it actually worked.
Is it the best tool in the toolbox? Probably not. Is it still useful.? Sure.
Like any advanced driving technique, probably best to have practiced it extensively before you need it though.
Whilst I still haven't done so yet, Drive Limits actually gave me confidence one day even in rainy conditions I could go full assist off one day, even in 30/70. After all, I did get round the track and pretty decent chat a few times without spinning (and it defo attempting to go). I'm a naturally cautious beaver, and I try to learn a lot before committing. After all, I've never had AWD or even a rear biased car before, straight into assist off at six months seems a bit silly to me.
Defintely agree with that, full on braking stabilises the car. My objection on the before advice was to turn in hard on top of that to purposefully provoke massive understeer. I just don't see the point in that when you can just as well have the steering pointing straight and actually know where you are going for sure (as ABS will try to maintain steering) and be sure you're braking as hard as possible.
- Dec 6, 2021
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Just to put into context, those of us who were talking about the exercise on the drive limits day, the situation we were put in was that you've arrived at a corner at 30mph more than you should have, so what are your options to avoid an accident. Of course the best plan is to not arrive at the corner this fast, but it was more of a last option to avoid an accident exercise. They were demonstrating how light to medium braking and trying to get around would induce a spin. However, braking hard at 9/10 force on the pedal and rolling back to 6/10 gently as the car lost speed, to avoid the ABS kicking in, while still turning the corner brought the car to a very undramatic stop. It was counter-intuitive for pretty much everyone there, but it worked even in the wet conditions we had on the day. I'm glad I got to try it in a safe environment.
Steve
Totally Hooked
The whole purpose of braking hard whilst the wheels are turned in the direction of the corner is to induce understeer and scrub off lots of speed so when you get grip back the car is pointing around the corner and you don’t fly off the road. If you had the wheels straight you’ve got to stop before running out of road, or you’re in the ditch (or worse).
It is very counterintuitive as when the back end is coming around braking seems like the worst thing you can do, but you lose so much grip over the front axle under hard braking that it stops the spin, and allows you to scrub off lots of speed.
If you’re running out of road and about to go into a full spin your options are severely limited anyway. If it was a clumsy jab of the brakes that caused it then getting back on the throttle will most probably sort you out. But if you’ve pitched into a turn with too much speed then you’re never going to make it out whichever way the car is pointed, you need to scrub off speed and a half-arsed braking effort will just make sure you leave the road backwards rather than forwards.
Sure. I never advocated half arsed, and from plenty experience too i know it's better to mash the brakes when front wheels are pointing straight, something that goes near instant, as well as steering into the bend after braking, we're talking max quarter of a turn of the steering wheel, no? Why straighten out, well if you misjudged grip already, you might do it on braking too and trigger ABS which may still turn car more then desired, or if you don't brake hard enough again still turning may further unsettle the car.
Of course if you don't even have margins to straighten out even the slightest then yes, brake hard and hopefully you'll stay on the road... But then even understeer may put you off the road...
I'll add further to the discussion, rear mobility increases even more when driving downhill and braking on turning, car can react very different for anyone used to only driving mostly flat terrain or perhaps hillclimbs only.
The popular added front canber mod doesn't help then either..
The popular added front canber mod doesn't help then either..
area_educator
Dedicated member
- May 14, 2022
- 135
- 191
Setting aside a thing that works on track, with ABS off, in a particular scenario....
It's hard to claim that in response to this
"Do more of that" is particularly good advice.
It's hard to claim that in response to this
"Do more of that" is particularly good advice.
bencollins4
Obsessed member
- Feb 1, 2022
- 246
- 315
The first advice was, as we are all familiar, don’t brake mid-corner as it unsettled the rear, but the bail out is brake as hard as you can. Let’s be honest, if you’re about to have a massive accident braking is generally not a bad move!
It’s obvious some here are unfamiliar with the technique but it doesn’t exactly take a lot of mastering. You basically keep steering and brake 10/10. In future, it’s obviously better to get braking done before the corner and I think we can all agree on that.
Don't disagree with you at all here but interestingly with decent technique I also didn't realise you can stop a car faster without getting ABS involved. Essentially breaking no harder than required not to lock up, if the car didn't have ABS.
I guess it kinda makes sense ABS makes a car that's locked up brake faster than it otherwise would, but it's not as effective as proper technique
Lauren
Totally Hooked
Agree with the in an emergency brake hard to get understeer. Many years ago, think it was 2005 I was at Spa and one of the other loons reckoned he could get round Pouhon at 125 in an S1 Elise on grippy tyres. I thought I'd try 110mph in my old MK1 MR2 Supercharger on road tyres. What an idiot I was. 90mph was really about the limit and Spa back then had gravel on the outside.
I approach it and quickly realise I've taken an absolute liberty. I don't want to go wide though as there is a high chance of rolling if I hit the gravel and I'm already sideways at 110mph as I had to get out of the throttle. MK1 MR2's are proper lairy in this situation. The inside is just armco with nowhere to go. I pushed my foot through the floor of the brake pedal, and doubtless was helped by no ABS, so I just locked the front wheels. That did allow for me to bring the car out of the slide. I had front tyres with a massive flat spot which did give me something of a headache on the long drive back to Manchester! Better than having a massive crash though!
I approach it and quickly realise I've taken an absolute liberty. I don't want to go wide though as there is a high chance of rolling if I hit the gravel and I'm already sideways at 110mph as I had to get out of the throttle. MK1 MR2's are proper lairy in this situation. The inside is just armco with nowhere to go. I pushed my foot through the floor of the brake pedal, and doubtless was helped by no ABS, so I just locked the front wheels. That did allow for me to bring the car out of the slide. I had front tyres with a massive flat spot which did give me something of a headache on the long drive back to Manchester! Better than having a massive crash though!
Indeed that's perfect for tracking, keep just out of the ABS engaging. For a bailout however, emergency braking (full stomp and ABS) and perhaps take some lock out of the steering rather then relying on understeer (which is the same as straightening out steering) is the better reflex to train imho.
ABS may prolong braking distance a bit, you keep some ability to steer. No engaging abs also means there is less slip, and thus more chance of steering working too. It's a quite small window in successfully creating understeer before ABS engages.
Best is obviously to train as often you can. Big empty parking lots work too...
Just my two cents: Anti Block System (ABS) tries to avoid a blocking wheel. If you have some steering input ABS reduces the forces for braking in favour to keep the steering forces alive. In case of straight line braking ABS is better than most drivers. Unfortunately most drivers try to steer and brake at the same time - which costs brake performance.
Watch this video an learn some about brakes and what's the influence in driving:
Driving 4 answers
Bye for now Fred
- Thread starter
- #36
Thanks for all the great advice here guys. Ah sorry forgot to state that one, I was in Track mode with ESP on.
Bat out of Hell
Totally Hooked
Great thread, I'm sure one day I will over cook a corner , I now know how to survive and not end up as a lesser spotted GRY nesting in a bush or wading in a ditch
