GR Yaris BROKEN Engine on GR Yaris after 120.000KM

[DraPPer]

How come no one has picked up on this ? The guy actually lives close by, sad to hear this happened

 

[Greenthumb]

Naja, der hatte doch schon über 120tkm drauf, oder? Und ich weiß, er hat mit dem Auto schon alles angestellt was man sich nur vorstellen kann .

I think he had more than 120tkm on the clock, and he was on drift events etc. with ECU Tuning etc.

Don't get me wrong, but I hope mine lasts that long. Given my driving profile, that would be another 20 years.

But seriously now. When an engine explodes that is tuned, with well over 100,000 km. That speaks for the engine. The days are over with an 8.5l V8 that can do 1 million miles. Or what do you think about it? What have I seen blown up M engines from BMW that didn't manage 100,000 km...

 

[Michael Knight]

Naja, der hatte doch schon über 120tkm drauf, oder? Und ich weiß, er hat mit dem Auto schon alles angestellt was man sich nur vorstellen kann .

I think he had more than 120tkm on the clock, and he was on drift events etc. with ECU Tuning etc.

Don't get me wrong, but I hope mine lasts that long. Given my driving profile, that would be another 20 years.

But seriously now. When an engine explodes that is tuned, with well over 100,000 km. That speaks for the engine. The days are over with an 8.5l V8 that can do 1 million miles. Or what do you think about it? What have I seen blown up M engines from BMW that didn't manage 100,000 km...

I'd say it's either bad engineering, bad tune, bad build or bad maintenance if engine fails.
With this engine the oil pressure seems to be one weak point in terms of engineering, of course its also related to how car is being serviced and more importantly how its being driven.
Maybe the oil pan baffles is not so bad idea like said if car is driven harder on track.

 

[Onehp]

Very few cars for sale today are truly "track ready" out of the box.
Honestly I am suprised how much "traction" or popularity the GRY has gotten as a pure track car, I thought it would be more of a Subaru Impreza.... Anyway, as a track car it does need adaptations like most cars... GT Porsches excepted maybe (but even RS still get additional near-factory Manthey treatment...)

 

[Michael Knight]

Very few cars for sale today are truly "track ready" out of the box.
Honestly I am suprised how much "traction" or popularity the GRY has gotten as a pure track car, I thought it would be more of a Subaru Impreza.... Anyway, as a track car it does need adaptations like most cars... GT Porsches excepted maybe (but even RS still get additional near-factory Manthey treatment...)

Valid point. many standard 911's also struggle on track so GR is not more special even it has the "rally pedigree" (at least in marketing talks).
If building a track focused / race car I'd add dry sump just as a safety. For street car is very overkill + having a aircon is too nice feature to remove if such is installed to any car.

If Toyota was smart they would fix all the noted issue and bring out MK3 variant of GR (the latest manual petrol rally car) but not seeing it very likely.

 

[DraPPer]

Naja, der hatte doch schon über 120tkm drauf, oder? Und ich weiß, er hat mit dem Auto schon alles angestellt was man sich nur vorstellen kann .

I think he had more than 120tkm on the clock, and he was on drift events etc. with ECU Tuning etc.

Don't get me wrong, but I hope mine lasts that long. Given my driving profile, that would be another 20 years.

But seriously now. When an engine explodes that is tuned, with well over 100,000 km. That speaks for the engine. The days are over with an 8.5l V8 that can do 1 million miles. Or what do you think about it? What have I seen blown up M engines from BMW that didn't manage 100,000 km...

Having owned an E92 M3 (which I sold for the rod bearing issue) and looking for a 987.1 Cayman S before the GRY (which I didnt get because of the bore scoring, IMS, air oil filter issues) was hoping Toyota would make this more durable. My car is being used as this guy mentions (10 events per year incl time attacks, irrrigated and snow drifts) and has the DTUK box (on only when trolling German cars in Autobahn or on time attacks). Oil change every 5k and 10k for transmission and diferentials. I am still far from the 120k km mileage (currently at 25k doing average of 10k per year) but I will be considering an oil baffle seeing this. I guess no way to find out if I had low oil presure which was not picked by stock ECU

 

[Onehp]

Having owned an E92 M3 (which I sold for the rod bearing issue) and looking for a 987.1 Cayman S before the GRY (which I didnt get because of the bore scoring, IMS, air oil filter issues) was hoping Toyota would make this more durable. My car is being used as this guy mentions (10 events per year incl time attacks, irrrigated and snow drifts) and has the DTUK box (on only when trolling German cars in Autobahn or on time attacks). Oil change every 5k and 10k for transmission and diferentials. I am still far from the 120k km mileage (currently at 25k doing average of 10k per year) but I will be considering an oil baffle seeing this. I guess no way to find out if I had low oil presure which was not picked by stock ECU

Start by overfilling oil a little (+ 0,5-0,8l?? Anyone know the 'correct' amount?) until you get the baffle, seems to be pretty effective to do so.

Also I wouldn't increase peak torque much if concerned about reliability on the OEM engine, certainly not more then the factory tunes (<= 400Nm) as torque is what breaks engines.... Well also heat melts/breaks them and deceiving the calculated EGT with false inputs (box and probably most remaps alike) doesn't help either....

As I wrote from the very beginning, engine not immediately braking under high power tunes and reliability are two very different things. But with the correct modifications quite a lot can be done for sure, but as always it's €€€€€ (but less then a V8-V12 )

 

[GottGry]

Start by overfilling oil a little (+ 0,5-0,8l?? Anyone know the 'correct' amount?) until you get the baffle, seems to be pretty effective to do so.

I read "somewhere" that 0,3 l is ok but not more, and that's what I have used for the last 2 seasons.
My Toyota tec didn't like it when he heard about this habit

 

[sixtentouge]

Is this where we're at in 2023?

A 1.6L turbo engine that's beat on, covered with aftermarket parts, some piggy-back tuner used to spoof the factory ECU, tracked on 100TW tires, "pops and bangs," de-cat, god only knows what oil (looks thick), and when it lets a stock piston go at 120,000km...it's somehow the OEMs fault because of a phantom "oil pressure issue" that only shows up on S tires on track?"

LMAO. Maybe I'm old, but in my day, that's what we called a solid engine.

I've logged oil pressure at 100ks/s, and on 200TW tires at gymkhana and on touge, as well as the local dealer's GR Yaris rally car on gravel. There's no oil pressure issue. Sometimes at zero-G, the rally car will suck air...LOL. You put a car on S tires, circuit suspension, etc., and suddenly the oil pick up is sucking air while hard braking into a corner...that's on you. It's way outside of what the OEM intended. I don't really care for the Savage Geese Youtube channel, but they were right about this: You don't put high-grip tires and suspension on a car and call it a race car. It changes everything, and you have to account for everything affected by those changes.

FWIW, it's pretty common for wet sump engines to suck a little air when the oil starts moving around. Not sure why it's suddenly a big thing on the Internet. I wonder if I'm the only one who sees the irony of the GR86 guy who's doing all the oil pressure testing finally having an engine failure after countless hours on the track...and that failure being due to the aftermarket baffle failing and blocking the pick up.

But I digress...

As to the video... Looks more like a shattered piston. Didn't show the engine torn down, so we have no idea what the other bearings look like... From what I can see, 35 years as an engine builder/calibrator tells me the damage is consistent with an abnormal combustion event. The long window in the block and the big-end still attached to the crank means we had a rod swinging around on the crank without a piston attached to it. Generally, a rod failure from a bearing failure leads to a big-end separation, after which, the crank comes around and "bats" the rod out the side of the engine. But a rod separation failure from lack of oil is exceedingly rare. 99.9% of the time it'll just wipe the bearing out, creating a LOT of noise for quite some time before it gets to the ejection point. With a bearing failure you can get enough clearance for the piston to hit the head, but again, it makes a lot of noise for quite some time before getting to that point...

Oil fill. I put 5L in the car. 0.7 over factory. So do the Toyota dealers here. I do it because I'm lazy and not going to measure out 4.3L, or do the add-check-add-check shuffle. I don't have oil in the crankcase ventilation system. I don't have oil pressure drops. It puts maybe 5mm on the dipstick. If the oil gets aerated, it'll cause the pump to cavitate on the suction side at high RPM, and this will manifest as low oil pressure.

Cheers.

*edited for terrible grammar.

 

[Sekred]

I would have to agree with sixtentouge here. The gudgeon pin is sitting in the undertray so the conrod has separated from the piston which tends to indicate this is a piston failure. The rest looks like collateral damage.
I has disassembled 3 diesel engines that spun big end bearing over the years when working as a Plant/Diesel mechanic. In all cases the piston hit the cylinder head. Interestingly the lower bearing had spun to the top of the conrod in all 3 engines which further reduced piston to head clearance. When the bearing spins in the conrod it is steel against steel with no lubrication which causes lots of friction and heat. Enough heat to melt the alloy from the steel back of the bearing. When you pull the sump it looks a bit like a pool of melted solder.

This is the 4th G16E-GTS that I have seen with holes punched through the block on YouTube. The pistons in some of these engines (the ones I can see) look like they have disintegrated. This is a bit of a concern for me because its is an unusual failure for a piston. But then again maybe it is not regarding a high revving turbocharged gasoline engine.
One thing is certain though there is definitely a reason, its not random (meaning this type of piston failure).
Perhaps it is a thermal fatigue issue.
.

 

[nikoel]

He was penny-pinching in front of a freight train and paid the price. In this case, the "penny" amounted to $385 AUD.

There are no oiling issues with the GR Yaris. As others have mentioned, if you use wide tyres, aftermarket suspension, and a highly-tuned engine without proper countermeasures, then you shouldn't be surprised by any resulting issues. It's not fair to blame the engine design later.

Does this guy also feed a Mogwai after midnight, offer an unlimited buffet with open tab on all spirits and coctails, and then make a YouTube video questioning why the place is overrun with gremlins...?!

Anyway, here is the part he needed: https://lamspeedracing.com/products/lamspeed-racing-toyota-gr-yaris-corolla-g16e-gts-baffled-oil-pan

 

[Onehp]

Thanks all for elaborating. I too saw a shattered piston but he also says the conrod was welded to the crankaxle. Who knows what came first, possibly related.
I do know the GRC has updated pistons, I've seen a few cases of shattered/broken pistons on GRY.
I don't think Toyota is to blame at all, and I also know that as with any engine, you cannot expect it to hold up long term when extracting much more power then the original level without making changes. So many factors involved and one often overlooked is indeed fatigue instigated by too much termal load. Also other issues with gearbox and clutch etc means that I think my above stance on torque and heat* is the proper, careful, approach.

Thanks for confirming overfilling, I go for 0,5l extra rougly just as precautionary. A little dip in pressure now and then isn't a problem, it is when it happens every 10s at every bend on track for many track hours. Every car I've had has this "issue" not being wet sump with a buffer tank.

The baffled insert from down under is nice but indeed, might wanna check up after x amount of time if those one way flaps hold up well, adding several new possible failure points there...

*only add, modest, power in the same measure as you remove heat by better hardware

 

[CerN]

Thanks all for elaborating. I too saw a shattered piston but he also says the conrod was welded to the crankaxle. Who knows what came first, possibly related.
I do know the GRC has updated pistons, I've seen a few cases of shattered/broken pistons on GRY.
I don't think Toyota is to blame at all, and I also know that as with any engine, you cannot expect it to hold up long term when extracting much more power then the original level. So many factors involved and one often overlooked is indeed fatigue instigated by too much termal load. Also other issues with gearbox and clutch etc means that I think my above stance on torque and heat* is the proper, careful, approach.

Thanks for confirming overfilling, I go for 0,5l extra rougly just as precautionary. A little dip in pressure now and then isn't a problem, it is when it happens every 10s at every bend on track for many track hours. Every car I've had has this "issue" not being wet sump with a buffer tank.

The baffled insert from down under is nice but indeed, might wanna check up after x amount of time if those one way flaps hold up well, adding several new possible failure points there...

*only add, modest, power in the same measure as you remove heat by better hardware

May I ask what oil you use when adding that extra bit?

 

[Onehp]

May I ask what oil you use when adding that extra bit?

Same as already in there, in my case OEM spec 0w20

 

[ZN8]

Is this where we're at in 2023?

As we say in the UK, "There is no such thing as a free lunch." It's frustrating that people automatically blame Toyota.

When I think back to all my car friends, those that spent the most time with their head under the bonnet and chasing problems were those that had modified their car. Those who want OEM levels of reliability from their modified car should probably rethink their strategy, if you think you can do it better than a department of engineers with big budgets and years of experience, good luck

 

[Greenthumb]

This overfill topic... What problems can this actually lead to if you have 0.5 liters too much in there?

 

[Onehp]

Oil can end up in the crank case ventilation, which if the oil in liquid form goes back into the intake could lead to preignition destroying the engine. It's a balance

 

[Greenthumb]

That's exactly why I have a stomach ache when I read 0.5-0.7l more, with so little total quantity.

 

[DraPPer]

Start by overfilling oil a little (+ 0,5-0,8l?? Anyone know the 'correct' amount?) until you get the baffle, seems to be pretty effective to do so.

Also I wouldn't increase peak torque much if concerned about reliability on the OEM engine, certainly not more then the factory tunes (<= 400Nm) as torque is what breaks engines.... Well also heat melts/breaks them and deceiving the calculated EGT with false inputs (box and probably most remaps alike) doesn't help either....

As I wrote from the very beginning, engine not immediately braking under high power tunes and reliability are two very different things. But with the correct modifications quite a lot can be done for sure, but as always it's €€€€€ (but less then a V8-V12 )

So far I am only using 245 semi slicks and thinking about suspension as well. Other than this I doubt the DTUK box puts much strain on the engine (I doubt it adds more than 20hp and maybe 10Nm torque), the air cooler works fine, I have ducts in the diffs, so hopefully it lasts! Planning on switching to 5W30 oil in my next change

 

[Onehp]

So far I am only using 245 semi slicks and thinking about suspension as well. Other than this I doubt the DTUK box puts much strain on the engine (I doubt it adds more than 20hp and maybe 10Nm torque), the air cooler works fine, I have ducts in the diffs, so hopefully it lasts! Planning on switching to 5W30 oil in my next change

If it adds 20hp at peak power 5500rpm that's per definition approx 25Nm and if it succeeds doing that it probably adds the same or more at peak torque around 4000rpm. Not problematical per se but does add load and as such not insignificant if heat load is already high (air cooler, you mean IC? Wagner? In that case that one alone also adds alomost 20Nm.)

What is the actual detailed tuned spec of the failed car?