Electric Cars

Juan Rawls said:
Worth a read…
www.theguardian.com

I love electric vehicles – and was an early adopter. But increasingly I feel duped | Rowan Atkinson

Sadly, keeping your old petrol car may be better than buying an EV, says actor Rowan Atkinson
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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I have huge respect for Rowan Atkinson and have always enjoyed whatever he has created. But I disagree on several key points - as a fellow driving enthusiast and engineer (mechanical, aerospace and environmental - and with experience in automotive)

One: battery production has is flaws, what is needed is strong legislation on battery production and management - guess what? The sometimes much maligned EU is coming with such a package and will hopefully lead the way globally as they have done in making combustion cars cleaner. Everything from mining, human rights and energy use, during life maintenance and after use re-use and recycling will be covered. Very good and will keep carmakers on their toes with an equal playing field! More continents/countries should plan to do the same!

Two: A limit on weight - agree on overweight but no solution is given other then move away from batteries. But this is a disease in general, also fashionable SUVs and 'normal' cars (RS6 is >2,2 tonnes, M2 >1,8tonnes irl) are getting way too heavy. Bring brack a tax system where overweight is punished and lightweight is promoted, irrespective of mode of propulsion. This will guide buyers and designers in the right direction.

Three: Hydrogen and synthetic fuels - the problem here is terrible energy efficiency. Moving one car with these technologies will move 2,5-4 cars with batteries. We need to build a system which is inherently energy efficient, battery tech and infrastructure challenges can be solved along the way and battery electric has huge potential to futher cleaning up their act as more renewable electricity comes along. In a similar way that one shouldn't have worried in 1950 that that oil production would suffice for the number of ICE cars in 1965 (with a few hickups later on, that really were beneficial long term).

Four: Keeping the car 5 years? - that doesn't matter much, what matters is the lifetime of the car itself, and that polluting and energy ineffcient cars are replaced by new, good clean energy and resource efficient cars. Most consumer EV's are already factually better (same Volvo report as referenced by Rowan - only one data point and improved lots since!) over, and this is key, their COMPLETE lifecycle, than getting an ICE car today, and we should of course keep working towards this point (see point one and two) so we don't put bad cars on the road TODAY that will live ANOTHER 20 years or so. Bad can also include bad EV's by the way....

Fifth: agree on just try to use that motorcar less. We also have an obesity pandemic...

Take care all :D
 
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WRONG... 😁
Anyone that thinks electric cars are the savior of the planet... is clearly barking at wrong tree!

Huge funds pouring into electric network strengthening, charging stations, EVs purchase subsidizing, battery factories, litium mining, etc at expense of every (working) citizen - regardless if they have the latest Taycan or saving every penny to fill up an old starlet to go to work. Once again: it's wrong!

There's a war going on FFS!!
Not to mention the the "usual" environmental problems that no one really addresses... e.g. waste management, imense unbalance on production - requiring huge resources on heavy transportation, very short-lifespan of products (incl. cars!), forests disappearing, forest fires, etc, etc...

...It's just that cars are so easy target for taxes! And EV's are just re-inventing the wheel for a problem.. that was not a really problem to start with.

Don't get me wrong: I think EV's are the future of the transportation but it's wrong to force-feed it!
 
GRandemakina said:
Don't get me wrong: I think EV's are the future of the transportation but it's wrong to force-feed it!
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Glad you agree they are the future for transportation 😁

And I sympathise, if I had payed the taxes you have for my Yaris I would also be slightly upset 😂

The 2030 and 2035 ICE sales stop are imho mostly for the industry, long term clarity and goal to work towards and none in the least supported by a majority of industry players. Consumers are overly worried, the ICE party continues a good few years for those who really want to, by those dates most consumers will want to have BEV's anyway. And great ICE cars from the future past can still be used if you're willing to pay the cost of (synthetic) fuels. Heck, might even be able to buy a new V12 even then. But for the majority, for transportation, ICE has had its glory days already past.... Imho.

PS: ref other forms of environmental destruction, they are being adressed too (albrit too slowly there too perhaps), but not as openly publicised as cars which lie close to heart to a lot of consumers... E.g. shipping is moving away from crude oil burning which was incredibly dirty, a big transition for sure, but I never read about it on facebook or insta ;)
 
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Onehp said:
Glad you agree they are the future for transportation 😁

And I sympathise, if I had payed the taxes you have for my Yaris I would also be slightly upset 😂
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For the record:
-Not upset at all, for what it is (and represents) the GRY is still a "bargain" - even in Norway! And I believe that I speak for the rest ca. 150 GRY owners around here.
What I'm upset about is that me (and many others) have to pay for someone else stupid agenda!
 
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GRandemakina said:
For the record:
-Not upset at all, for what it is (and represents) the GRY is still a "bargain" - even in Norway! And I believe that I speak for the rest ca. 150 GRY owners around here.
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I'm secretly wishing that mk2 would be 50kg fatter and 10k more expensive, little bit downtuned as a homologation special. but its just selfishly thinking it would make the mk1 more special. All in all, I think GR Yaris is great product of its own kind, no other exists yet, and likely will not exist for a while. Not until we get those solid state batteried EV's that make it possible to build lightweight EV cars for fun driving.

I could be interested of Mk2 if they made it +100hp on demand hybrid, maybe 50kg extra weight (added to rear) and 50km full EV range. but this is not going to happen.
 
ICE cars are going to be around for many decades yet. It is only cars The official comment is:
"The 2030 ban is only the sale of new petrol or diesel cars that can't travel a "significant distance" in zero-emissions mode. Cars already bought before the ban will not be impacted".
Those millions of vehicles left on the road will last a long, long time. So, all of the vans, trucks, busses, bikes and classic cars will still use petrol and diesel. There will be so many of them the government would be crazy to up the taxes too much.
I believe EV is the future and is unstoppable but the law might come in 2030 (or pushed back a bit) but will take decades before all old vehicles are scrapped.
The new EV batteries will eventually last up to 1k miles so charging at home will be fine for most people. When petrol pumps are scrapped those tens of thousands of service stations won't survive on milk and bread alone. Small garages will struggle to service EVs under warranty. Everything will change.
Without ICE cars the hit on the countries finances will be huge which is why ICE will be allowed to hang around for well past when I have gone up to that service station in the sky.
The government are looking at the possibility of charging EV owners a few pence per mile using the tracking system now in all new cars to make up for the loss of fuel tax taken every time we fill up. Road tax is coming in soon so EV cars will not be cheaper to run when government hears the cash register bells ringing with their new ideas.
 
Yeah, it was only brand new cars produced all along. Average car is 11,5 years old in Sweden, meaning they get scrapped at roughly double that. So ICE will be along for a long time for those that want. If wars and oil pricing don't force an ever quicker transition.

At the same time, not starting changing out new cars for EVs in the investment and technology sense would be wasting time for the industry to make the changeover as they wait out each other and weigh their investments. Some bright minds have already decided its better to make the full transition, this isn't just politicians, this is just as much the industry itself and academia alike. And enthusiasts as myself ;)

And frankly, europe is already behind and at risk becoming made obselete. Tesla and Chinese brands are on a big rise. Ref. Nokia, Kodak who are nothing today.

Have both the individual but also the system perspective with system timelines in mind.


From the individual perspective, already looking forward to the EV equivalent of the GRY, but then with razor sharp antilag system EV throttle response!
 
Onehp said:
Yeah, it was only brand new cars produced all along. Average car is 11,5 years old in Sweden, meaning they get scrapped at roughly double that. So ICE will be along for a long time for those that want. If wars and oil pricing don't force an ever quicker transition.

At the same time, not starting changing out new cars for EVs in the investment and technology sense would be wasting time for the industry to make the changeover as they wait out each other and weigh their investments. Some bright minds have already decided its better to make the full transition, this isn't just politicians, this is just as much the industry itself and academia alike. And enthusiasts as myself ;)

And frankly, europe is already behind and at risk becoming made obselete. Tesla and Chinese brands are on a big rise. Ref. Nokia, Kodak who are nothing today.

Have both the individual but also the system perspective with system timelines in mind.


From the individual perspective, already looking forward to the EV equivalent of the GRY, but then with razor sharp antilag system EV throttle response!
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Tesla doesn't look that attractive marque to me even though it has been in forefront of EV tech for some time. Looking for better quality.
My guess is also that Tesla will be surpassed, as often happens with tech forerunners.

Interesting times to wait and see what tech is introduced, not so interesting times to buy new cars and watch the value detoriate because of new innovations.
Wonder if Chinese companies will grasp big market share, China is already really big with all its Tech and wouldn't be surprised if EU and US start taxing them more because don't wan't to give them too much market.

Bicycles are nice, fast, and healthy, and their tech detoriates slower so its a win-win.
 
One of the paradoxes with EVs is that the companies building them want you to buy new cars more often with their latest software and infotainment features. It's become like smartphones. "Oh no, the infotainment in my car feels laggy, time to upgrade to the newest model".

What would actually benefit the environment would be legislation towards longer warranties, better rust protection, guaranteed software updates, and upgradable infotainment systems for a reasonable price.
 
I am looking forward to seeing the new EV sports cars that will come. The new MG whatever it's called looks really nice but I would prefer it to have a different badge on it. They will come and fairly soon I recon. The GR86 is limited. The new Celica is coming according the boss of Toyota. It could be an EV so it goes alongside the 86 and Supra so that would be interesting. I have said I won't get an EV but a Celica to sit at the side of the GRY, who knows?
 
More details about the Toyota EV manual gearbox - next they'll be adding NVH back into a car to replicate a petrol/diesel engine. :D

In Toyota’s case, according to a patent application filed in the United States in late May, the car would have no actual multi-speed transmission. Instead, a shifter would be connected to sensors and a central computer programmed to mimic the feel of a car with a manual transmission. Since not all cars with manual transmissions are the same – they have different engines and different transmissions with different numbers of gears – the central computer would be programmed to imitate a specific sort of manual transmission car. To complete the experience, the driver will have a clutch pedal in addition to the usual brake and accelerator.
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nice dreams but find it partially funny leaving the fakery stuff in car such as clutch pedal. Maybe fun for 5min but who will actually continue using it if its not really needed.
Such as mimicing use of sequential box could be good enough aswell. then just add little more go for each gear so it feels like car would fly eventually..
 
So this last week I've been trying to charge my electric car at work and it's been a nightmare. A combination of broken chargers and a company salary sacrifice scheme meant I couldn't get a look in. Grown men were running around trying to beat each other to a free charge point.

If say, overnight there is a breakthrough in solid state charging and all of a sudden you can get 400 mile range cars that charge in 30 minutes for the same or less price than now this country will be screwed infrastructure wise.
 
Pappyjohn said:
So this last week I've been trying to charge my electric car at work and it's been a nightmare. A combination of broken chargers and a company salary sacrifice scheme meant I couldn't get a look in. Grown men were running around trying to beat each other to a free charge point.
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Sorry but charge at home, charging at work should be considered a perk or novelty. If there are no chargers there a no chargers, I don't see any petrol pumps in my work car park :ROFLMAO:
 
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