Electric Cars

You need to diversify, you can’t rely on one type of propulsion system. The UK national grid infrastructure and generating assets do not have the capacity to support a whole country using BEVs. Not to mention LGVs and HGVs can't realistically be powered by batteries, the technology simply doesn’t exist. E-fuels will have a future but it will only be limited in capacity.
 
E-fuels are perfect as energy storage as such.

Problem with nuclear is cost. In a market economy, private investors aren't likely to invest when renewables AND storage are ever increasingly getting much cheaper.

Any transition is painful.

When there is a deficit in electricity supply any increase is a burden.
On national level in Sweden, having the whole country running BEV cars would use 15-20 TWh mostly charging at night, while electricity export was twice as high as that 2022. Similar for Norway. UK I have no clue but by the sounds of it there is more work to be done there....
 
foxspeed said:
not on about eco credentials if they are or are not good for the environment...

i just dont seem excited about any of them even with zillion hp and 0-3000mph in 1 sec :unsure:

latest ferrari release or aston martin with a v12 etc now thats a different matter or even a hybrid v6 :cool:

must be a dinosaur :eek:
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Agree 💯%
 
Real change typically happens over a generation, when the dinosaurs have perished ;)
 
The key has always been a mix of everything, unfortunately propaganda, driven by economic incentives of the powerful few (and I include those heavily invested in renewables as well as traditional energy sources) have been influencing ‘scientific’ reports to either bolster the claims of one type or disregard another.

Politicians are blinded by a desire to appear progressive to certain sections of the electorate and protective of jobs and interests of others.

The U.K. is in a ridiculous position of hedging its bets on certain renewables when it hasn’t even started on battery systems to cope when the wind doesn’t blow. Indeed even the simplest calculation on the back of a fag packet and you’d work out that it is not possible with all the resources in the world to capture the energy required for even 50% of vehicles to be BEV. Regardless of government there isn’t an adult in the room with the sense to see that Net Zero is a complete pipe dream without causing real, prolonged harm to living standards for everyone - and that includes those at the top.

From all I know, as a consumer, is the electric car in the U.K. now makes little economic sense. Some of my friends are paying 75p per kw at home and when the energy price cap ends domestic (and commercial) rates will rocket again. On certain journeys the Tesla works out at as the equivalent of 8 mpg when you factor in the drop in oil prices and the cost of a kw. That isn’t progress at all.
 
corroded said:
Personally, I don't care super much for the efficiency to wheels argument. I am sure eating nothing but gruel, and vitamin tablets is the most energy efficient way of feeding humanity too.

Renewable is great until there is a windless night... We needed to be building nuclear plants decades ago in the UK for the demand bump, yet we are closing them and only building partial replacement. All this nonsense about adjusting rates based on demand and battery storage at properties etc is f'ing daft (cost, material usage) when we essentially have the technology to add much more power into the system already.

Here's hoping also they the fusion future that is only twenty years away is actually ticking down for once. Then maybe we can no guilt run carbon dioxide reclaimers

If I'm honest considering the utter crap of utilities in this country maybe making them public would be a good idea because tbh it'd probably cost us less to build it via tax so we can subsidise the energy cost rather than putting that cash into some companies pocket.
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I only disagree with the last point.

From an historical perspective how did the railway network and the original electricity grid expand? Because of unfettered competition and an extreme lack of government interference. IMO a similar zeal is required to develop the energy sector here. We live in a considerably different world from the late 19th/early 20th century but can anyone really think of a successful government project that was delivered on time, on budget and had lasting beneficial effects? Even military procurement and nuclear energy have gone to waste. Imagine the government had been involved in the tech sector early on, we’d all still be walking around with phones with batteries the size of concrete blocks.

I don’t want to come across as the Ron Swanson of GR Zoo, the uber libertarian that sees all government involvement as rancid, decrepit and corrupt but I do think that our energy market is far too highly regulated, subsidised and centrally controlled as it is anyway. We have ended up with this ridiculous price cap at the moment ultimately because successive governments have stymied domestic production in favour of importing gas and oil for regimes we can’t trust.

Sure we have private companies that report to shareholders that own energy production, delivery and management companies but that is all within the giant framework of government (taxpayer) subsidy already. It’s like people who moan about the trains and forget the taxpayer already subsidises them to a massive amount every year anyway.
 
ZN8 said:
You need to diversify, you can’t rely on one type of propulsion system. The UK national grid infrastructure and generating assets do not have the capacity to support a whole country using BEVs. Not to mention LGVs and HGVs can't realistically be powered by batteries, the technology simply doesn’t exist. E-fuels will have a future but it will only be limited in capacity.
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Common sense at last!!!
 
GRandemakina said:
then we shouldn't keep buying electric cars (and other s**t) from countries where the industry is powered by coal powerplants... and repeating the same mistake every couple of years!
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True, there is a reason there are close to 50 (!) Li-ion battery factories planned in Europe....

BTW, MG Electric is owned by SAIC which is a fully state owned company. There are shades of grey and then there is black also ;)
 
What I find depressing is that instead of trying to reduce usage we are trying to find ways to carry one consuming as much as before just by other ways.

I totally agree with the above poster about buying electric cars from coal fired countries. We are soon to be flooded with Chinese cars and no doubt we'll all be driving them in 10 years time.
 
Got little excited of new Prius. Have always been fond of "efficiently engineered" vehicles and prius ticks those boxes.
Yeah some plugin hybrids might have similar MPG but as they are heavier and less aero efficient, in real life their efficiency will be much lower.
GR consuming 10ltr/100km now so not that really efficient for commuter vehicle.

Prius doing almost 100km with full EV which would be likely sufficient for daily driving.
Only downside is that there is no roof rack option so not really a cargo hauler for bigger family trips (ski's, bikes), but would do 90% of the job for every day use.
 
Looks like a good alternative, full electric for most short trips, and still very frugal on long ones - contrary to most hybrids. Still not available here though, might consider it if it's cheaper then current BEV.

Which cost 5% of the GRY to run when home charging for me, or 10% with the odd fast charge accounted for. And not much more expensive to buy either while being a lot more practical, comfortable and not that bad to drive at all. Range the same too...

I really must be insane to still drive the GRY. If cars were rational....
 
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Onehp said:
True, there is a reason there are close to 50 (!) Li-ion battery factories planned in Europe....

BTW, MG Electric is owned by SAIC which is a fully state owned company. There are shades of grey and then there is black also ;)
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owned by the communist party....operating like a capitalist country on the surface....have to pay some how for the military might to take over the world:eek:

the way things are going they will also have the electric car sector dominated as well...
 
foxspeed said:
owned by the communist party....operating like a capitalist country on the surface....have to pay some how for the military might to take over the world:eek:

the way things are going they will also have the electric car sector dominated as well...
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Yeah but still some differences between brands. Some still have some corporate barriers, some you basically have a straight connection to the party, giving away live position, conversations inside, camera feed and your phone linked up probably too...
 
Onehp said:
Yeah but still some differences between brands. Some still have some corporate barriers, some you basically have a straight connection to the party, giving away live position, conversations inside, camera feed and your phone linked up probably too...
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If it is a Chinese company, once it reaches a certain size has to have a CCP branch inside it and board representatives. Also a concept of golden shares, where they have special rights over business decisions, I think it functions like a veto.

You're right that some westernised companies may have more corporate barriers but also it really depends how much the company is owned, and if the people care enough to question stuff like something seemingly innocuous as server locations.
 
Onehp said:
Looks like a good alternative, full electric for most short trips, and still very frugal on long ones - contrary to most hybrids. Still not available here though, might consider it if it's cheaper then current BEV.

Which cost 5% of the GRY to run when home charging for me, or 10% with the odd fast charge accounted for. And not much more expensive to buy either while being a lot more practical, comfortable and not that bad to drive at all. Range the same too...

I really must be insane to still drive the GRY. If cars were rational....
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yep rationale was that from price point it is not really expensive, vs. for instance EV's.
could hold its value okeyish for 3-4 years (or lets say less than EV's). To finland delivery is for Oct/Nov if ordred now.
 
Onehp said:
Looks like a good alternative, full electric for most short trips, and still very frugal on long ones - contrary to most hybrids. Still not available here though, might consider it if it's cheaper then current BEV.

Which cost 5% of the GRY to run when home charging for me, or 10% with the odd fast charge accounted for. And not much more expensive to buy either while being a lot more practical, comfortable and not that bad to drive at all. Range the same too...

I really must be insane to still drive the GRY. If cars were rational....
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Apparently, the new Prius will not be coming to UK. Had a go in a friends Yaris Cross the other day and what a lovely SUV. Good size and on a run she got 72 mpg and pushes 60 mpg just normal trips so not too bad.
 
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