GR86 Moving to/from a GR Supra? My thoughts...

S18RSG

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One of the most common questions I've had since my move from the 3.0 GR Supra to the GR86, has been "do you regret it?", and multiple times I've been asked for my opinions on the differences between the two. A message via this forum today asking the same thing, has suggested that perhaps I should formalise my thoughts on the topic. Hopefully this helps those of you who are considering the two cars, or perhaps considering the Supra as a future "upgrade" post GR86 ownership.

So, where to start. Firstly, I think I need to clarify one main point which summarises my overall thoughts quite well. The two cars are VERY different.

The Supra is a sporty GT car. Its design language is quite clearly sports car, but the driving experience certainly toes the line between sports and GT. Think more Jaguar F Type than Porsche Cayman.
Without a shadow of doubt, the standout feature of the Supra is its drivetrain. The engine is mighty, even in stock form. With a mild tune, even more so. With some more serious tuning and 500hp+, it's genuine supercar performance.
Controversially, I actually think it suits the ZF auto gearbox brilliantly. The manual, while clearly the enthusiasts choice, would not be my choice. The engine is not one that lends itself to a manual. There's no real need to row through the gears, when you have an engine that, whether in 3rd or 6th, you get a pretty similar level of performance anyway.
The car is very much at home on an A road, or a motorway. As "sports cars" go, there's not many I've driven (and I've driven hundreds of cars) that compete for a mix of 2 seat practicality, comfort and performance in this scenario.
On a B road, that's where the car ultimately disappoints me, and I think the major reason I never quite fell in love with it. It's certainly fast and capable enough, but the slight disconnect between driver and car is a little frustrating. I find this to be consistent across most post 2010s BMWs, even the M cars, and that's the main disadvantage, for me, of that BMW partnership.
My particular car was adorned with Eibach springs, spacers, grippier tyres and a fairly thorough fast road setup. It was A LOT better than stock, but still ultimately left me a little cold on my favourite stretches of road.

Fi6g1owXgCEIkP2.jpg


On the contrary, this is where the GR86 is at its very best. A fast, uneven B road is where the car absolutely shines. The lack of mass (compared to rivals, and the Supra) is so obviously present. Turn in, and the wheel remains a method of changing the direction of the vehicle, not becoming a grab handle as you attempt to stop yourself from being thrown from the seat (this is a constant feeling in the Supra on a fast road).
I imagine that, on a standard British B road, the Supra, and even the GR Yaris, would make minced meat of the 86. But as corny and "journalism bingo" as this will sound, the 86 driver will be having the most fun and that's not up for debate.
As a daily driver or long distance commuter, obviously the GR86 is a fraction of the car that the Supra is. It's louder, much slower, harder work, stiffer, worse sound system and tech, just so much worse. Do I care? Not even slightly. For me, if you buy a GR86 and commute using the "fastest" or "most efficient" route on your sat nav, you're missing the point of the car. Set that thing to "avoid all motorways", find some nice scenic routes or back roads, leave an hour earlier and use the car for its intended purpose.
With that being said, one of the standout traits of the GR86 is its refinement. For those of you yet to drive one, but with experience of the previous GT86 and/or GR Supra, for me, it almost perfectly plugs the gap between the two. Nowhere near as dreary or hard work as the GT86, but nowhere near as effortless as the Supra. A perfect compromise of the two.
And on the subject of the GT86, that's where I can most easily draw my conclusion on the GR. As a former GT86 owner myself, the most adequate description of the GR86 is that its, quite simply, a GT86 with every single element of the car improved somewhere between 1% and 50%. Some things are minor, some, like the engine, are enormous improvements. And although the cars are still quite similar, the GR, to me, performs like a car worth 50% more than the GT86, not £3,000 less (allowing for inflation).

339320049_3079595189008901_7804180703504848756_n.jpg


So, a conclusion of the comparison then.

As I responded to the message I received earlier today, I cannot possibly suggest a winner. It's 100% down to preference. If you want a car to commute in, a fast, effortless, comfortable and modern car that's also quite fun in the right scenario, the Supra is a no brainer. For me, under £50,000 there's almost nothing else that does so many things so well. It is I think the best compromise of a sports car in that price bracket. If, however, your vehicle needs are a little more specialised: you want a weekend car; track car; or simply you're happy to sacrifice some daily refinement for the sake of weekend/B road fun, then the GR86 is a no brainer. Like the Supra, for under £50,000 I don't think there's a better all round sports car, all things considered, for the money. Sure, Alpine and Porsche offer some fantastic cars, better than the 86 in some circumstances, but at a much higher price point and with caveats (practicality, weird engine choices, reliability etc.).

Quite clearly based on my muttering, I do not regret my decision. The Supra is an awesome car, but the areas where it shines are not highly valuable to me. Although in many ways the Supra is the better car, for me, the GR86 is just so much better suited to my desires. Even if the two cars were the same price, I'd still make the same choice. The fact that the 86 is so much cheaper is little more than a bonus.

Believe it or not, I have tried to limit my output of rambling as much as possible. There are no doubt loads of well thought out and heavily considered opinions and points I've missed. If there are any specific questions comparing the two, I'm happy to answer. Also, if others have anything to add, or you agree/disagree, let's discuss! I'm keen to hear other opinions too!
 
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A magnificent read.

I've not driven a Supra so can't comment on that aspect, but I'd certainly agree with this:

"As a former GT86 owner myself, the most adequate description of the GR86 is that its, quite simply, a GT86 with every single element of the car improved somewhere between 1% and 50%.*
 
Yep, nice to read your thoughts @S18RSG . I do love commuting in my GR86 though and I'd say to anyone that if you are not used to high levels of luxury, the GR86 certainly does the boring stuff well. Kettering to Dorset today and no motorways. Although I did use the A34 / A43 for a bit, but have some favourite cut-throughs, or should I say detours. 😁
 
A superb write-up, thanks for that.

Your reasons for preferring the 86 over the Supra mirror my own when comparing to the F-Type that I sold to fund my GR86.

Most people would think I'm mad for selling a sexy 550bhp V8 coupe for a 4 cylinder Toyota but I couldn't be happier with my choice.
 
I enjoyed reading that, and as I'm another coming from a Supra to the GR86, I think I agree with it all. As you say, in theory (and so it should be at the cost) the Supra is a much better car. It was my choice after deciding between it and the Porsche Cayman T, Alpine A110, BMW Z4, and coming from an F-Type. What I struggled with the most was, I wasn't having as much fun on B roads as I wanted, I was having to hold back due to the huge amount of power available, rather than being able to push it, so I didn't gel with it as much as I hoped. Everyone wants something different, but I was more than willing to give up some power and refinement to get more of a grin on my face when I'm driving, which the GR86 manages to do easily. I also have no regrets, and the amount of money I've saved by changing is a nice bonus to add to it.
 
Yep, nice to read your thoughts @S18RSG . I do love commuting in my GR86 though and I'd say to anyone that if you are not used to high levels of luxury, the GR86 certainly does the boring stuff well. Kettering to Dorset today and no motorways. Although I did use the A34 / A43 for a bit, but have some favourite cut-throughs, or should I say detours. 😁
I agree completely. I use mine for daily commuting, most of which is through dull and boring 10-15mph town traffic. I still love it. I've done nearly 5k miles since Christmas, been all over the country. I love driving it. I still avoid motorways like the plague, but then I did that in most cars I've owned tbf!
 
I enjoyed reading that, and as I'm another coming from a Supra to the GR86, I think I agree with it all. As you say, in theory (and so it should be at the cost) the Supra is a much better car. It was my choice after deciding between it and the Porsche Cayman T, Alpine A110, BMW Z4, and coming from an F-Type. What I struggled with the most was, I wasn't having as much fun on B roads as I wanted, I was having to hold back due to the huge amount of power available, rather than being able to push it, so I didn't gel with it as much as I hoped. Everyone wants something different, but I was more than willing to give up some power and refinement to get more of a grin on my face when I'm driving, which the GR86 manages to do easily. I also have no regrets, and the amount of money I've saved by changing is a nice bonus to add to it.
You had a similar shortlist to me prior to the Supra. I also tried the 5L Mustang, 370Z Nismo, Audi TTRS/RS3 Saloon, M2 Comp, and a bunch more. The Supra was definitely the best compromise of them all.

If they were similarly priced (or if I could justify the £70k+ asking price) I think I'd be driving a Cayman GT4 (either 718 or 981), and I know that's a significant step up on both the Supra and the GR86, but that's alst more than double the price of the 86, and I know from experience its not twice the car. It's fantastic, but I love the 86 too.
 
I agree completely. I use mine for daily commuting, most of which is through dull and boring 10-15mph town traffic. I still love it. I've done nearly 5k miles since Christmas, been all over the country. I love driving it. I still avoid motorways like the plague, but then I did that in most cars I've owned tbf!
I'm the same, daily driver, nearly at 3000 miles now. My usual 40 mile round trip consists of half of that stuck in traffic, I'm still happy doing it in the GR86.
 
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In BMW speak

The Supra is ~ M2 competition (or a Z4 coupe that doesn't exist)

The GR86 is a modern ~ E30 M3 Evo II
I actually drove the M2 Comp before the Supra, and in many ways I think it's a better car than the Supra. I thoroughly enjoyed it. The major gripes I have with it are interior ergonomics (spending £45k for a car that feels 90% the same inside as a 116i is not for me) and the engine, which both sounds crap and has a shocking design flaw that costs £2k to fix (crank hub).

But yes, GR86 reminds me of some old school BMW or something. I actually want to make mine a little less refined with some weight reduction etc. to get a slightly rawer feeling. Much as I love the refinement, I would actually go for a slight downgrade in that department to get some more connection to the car.
 
I agree completely. I use mine for daily commuting, most of which is through dull and boring 10-15mph town traffic. I still love it. I've done nearly 5k miles since Christmas, been all over the country. I love driving it. I still avoid motorways like the plague, but then I did that in most cars I've owned tbf!
Ha ha. There are going to be some leggy GR86's knocking around in a few years. Mine's just over 6.5k miles now, but it just proves how driveable they are.
 
I actually drove the M2 Comp before the Supra, and in many ways I think it's a better car than the Supra. I thoroughly enjoyed it. The major gripes I have with it are interior ergonomics (spending £45k for a car that feels 90% the same inside as a 116i is not for me) and the engine, which both sounds crap and has a shocking design flaw that costs £2k to fix (crank hub).

But yes, GR86 reminds me of some old school BMW or something. I actually want to make mine a little less refined with some weight reduction etc. to get a slightly rawer feeling. Much as I love the refinement, I would actually go for a slight downgrade in that department to get some more connection to the car.

Agree, not meant as a direct like for like more like the difference here is similar to the difference between a M2C and a E30 M3. Usually people are quite firmly in one camp which one they prefer to drive...
 
You had a similar shortlist to me prior to the Supra. I also tried the 5L Mustang, 370Z Nismo, Audi TTRS/RS3 Saloon, M2 Comp, and a bunch more. The Supra was definitely the best compromise of them all.

If they were similarly priced (or if I could justify the £70k+ asking price) I think I'd be driving a Cayman GT4 (either 718 or 981), and I know that's a significant step up on both the Supra and the GR86, but that's alst more than double the price of the 86, and I know from experience its not twice the car. It's fantastic, but I love the 86 too.
The Cayman was my second choice, but the sound of the engine (the 4 cylinder in the standard 718) just wasn't right for the car to my ears (I'm sure the GT4 is very different though). What decided it for me was my local Porsche dealer - I was looking at one of their cheapest cars, and I got the impression they'd rather be spending time with their £100k+ car customers. I had to push hard to get a test drive, and once I'd managed that they lied to me about what I was looking at ordering (they told me the T model was discontinued, when, at the time, it definitely wasn't, and carried on for quite a while after). I walked away because of it, and I definitely don't regret that either.
 
The Cayman was my second choice, but the sound of the engine (the 4 cylinder in the standard 718) just wasn't right for the car to my ears (I'm sure the GT4 is very different though). What decided it for me was my local Porsche dealer - I was looking at one of their cheapest cars, and I got the impression they'd rather be spending time with their £100k+ car customers. I had to push hard to get a test drive, and once I'd managed that they lied to me about what I was looking at ordering (they told me the T model was discontinued, when, at the time, it definitely wasn't, and carried on for quite a while after). I walked away because of it, and I definitely don't regret that either.
I've heard similar experiences with Porsche dealerships. My dad had a Boxster S a few years back and never had issues, neither does my friend with the 981 Cayman GT4 (where I got my GT4 experience from), but it's certainly something that was in the back of my mind too.

And yes, the modern turbo'd 718 Porsche engines don't quite sit right with me either. The GT4 I drove had the 3.8 from the 911 Carrera S, but it's spectacular in the mid engined layout. I can only imagine the 718's 4L being even more so, and would probably be my choice (in manual with carbon buckets and steel brakes, in case anyone wants to buy me one!) despite its relative lack or rarity.
 
But yes, GR86 reminds me of some old school BMW or something. I actually want to make mine a little less refined with some weight reduction etc. to get a slightly rawer feeling. Much as I love the refinement, I would actually go for a slight downgrade in that department to get some more connection to the car.

I think this sold me ^

Perfect write up, much appreciate this! (y)
 
Spot on. Same views as me which is unsurprising given cars we've had and driven. The GR86 is for those that think happiness isn't around the corner, it is the corner. The Supra is for those who derive fun from blasting between roundabouts and down motorway slip roads, bragging about power figures. It is a mighty car but not for me either. I drove a M240i a few years ago and the steering was so numb it felt dangerous, such was the disconnect. I'm also starting to think I could do with some more noise too. The exhaust I'm really loving though. Think eventually I'll do manifold and the rest of it.
 
A good summary there and from others who 'just get it'. To me the GR86 is (was) the oldest new car you could buy, and compared to its predecessor you can get the same level of fun out of it for less effort.

It's interesting you mention about making it less refined, despite that often being seen as a negative trait, its the opposite for driver involvement and enjoyment. It reminds me when I went to test drive a 981 Cayman back in 2021, I drove the 65 miles to Cridfords Porsche in my GT86, then drove the same roads on the way in, in a well kitted out Cayman, the overwhelming feeling I got on that test drive was how insulated I was, the ride was great, it was refined, you were completely immersed in a chunky well put together interior, it had steam roller width 265 tyres (on a 2.7), the engine sounded insane, it was punchy, everything was perfectly engineered and superior to the GT86 but I felt isolated, it just wasn't really 'fun', it felt too big, too potent, too clinical.

Remember flimsy old hatchbacks from the 90s where road and wind noise reverberated around the tin shell, there was minimal metal and plastic separating you from hedgerows and tarmac because the door door card was about 1" thick, everything was immersive, I think this car strikes that balance nicely, not too little, not too much.
 
Had similar feeling when I drove my 'dream' car up the Northern Italian mountains, Ferrari 458. Engine sound and revs insane, but basically all the rest let med down. Steering, brakes, suspension, weight. Was happy to return to my (finetuned and NA tuned a la GR86) GT86...
 
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One of the most common questions I've had since my move from the 3.0 GR Supra to the GR86, has been "do you regret it?", and multiple times I've been asked for my opinions on the differences between the two. A message via this forum today asking the same thing, has suggested that perhaps I should formalise my thoughts on the topic. Hopefully this helps those of you who are considering the two cars, or perhaps considering the Supra as a future "upgrade" post GR86 ownership.

So, where to start. Firstly, I think I need to clarify one main point which summarises my overall thoughts quite well. The two cars are VERY different.

The Supra is a sporty GT car. Its design language is quite clearly sports car, but the driving experience certainly toes the line between sports and GT. Think more Jaguar F Type than Porsche Cayman.
Without a shadow of doubt, the standout feature of the Supra is its drivetrain. The engine is mighty, even in stock form. With a mild tune, even more so. With some more serious tuning and 500hp+, it's genuine supercar performance.
Controversially, I actually think it suits the ZF auto gearbox brilliantly. The manual, while clearly the enthusiasts choice, would not be my choice. The engine is not one that lends itself to a manual. There's no real need to row through the gears, when you have an engine that, whether in 3rd or 6th, you get a pretty similar level of performance anyway.
The car is very much at home on an A road, or a motorway. As "sports cars" go, there's not many I've driven (and I've driven hundreds of cars) that compete for a mix of 2 seat practicality, comfort and performance in this scenario.
On a B road, that's where the car ultimately disappoints me, and I think the major reason I never quite fell in love with it. It's certainly fast and capable enough, but the slight disconnect between driver and car is a little frustrating. I find this to be consistent across most post 2010s BMWs, even the M cars, and that's the main disadvantage, for me, of that BMW partnership.
My particular car was adorned with Eibach springs, spacers, grippier tyres and a fairly thorough fast road setup. It was A LOT better than stock, but still ultimately left me a little cold on my favourite stretches of road.

View attachment 15538

On the contrary, this is where the GR86 is at its very best. A fast, uneven B road is where the car absolutely shines. The lack of mass (compared to rivals, and the Supra) is so obviously present. Turn in, and the wheel remains a method of changing the direction of the vehicle, not becoming a grab handle as you attempt to stop yourself from being thrown from the seat (this is a constant feeling in the Supra on a fast road).
I imagine that, on a standard British B road, the Supra, and even the GR Yaris, would make minced meat of the 86. But as corny and "journalism bingo" as this will sound, the 86 driver will be having the most fun and that's not up for debate.
As a daily driver or long distance commuter, obviously the GR86 is a fraction of the car that the Supra is. It's louder, much slower, harder work, stiffer, worse sound system and tech, just so much worse. Do I care? Not even slightly. For me, if you buy a GR86 and commute using the "fastest" or "most efficient" route on your sat nav, you're missing the point of the car. Set that thing to "avoid all motorways", find some nice scenic routes or back roads, leave an hour earlier and use the car for its intended purpose.
With that being said, one of the standout traits of the GR86 is its refinement. For those of you yet to drive one, but with experience of the previous GT86 and/or GR Supra, for me, it almost perfectly plugs the gap between the two. Nowhere near as dreary or hard work as the GT86, but nowhere near as effortless as the Supra. A perfect compromise of the two.
And on the subject of the GT86, that's where I can most easily draw my conclusion on the GR. As a former GT86 owner myself, the most adequate description of the GR86 is that its, quite simply, a GT86 with every single element of the car improved somewhere between 1% and 50%. Some things are minor, some, like the engine, are enormous improvements. And although the cars are still quite similar, the GR, to me, performs like a car worth 50% more than the GT86, not £3,000 less (allowing for inflation).

View attachment 15537

So, a conclusion of the comparison then.

As I responded to the message I received earlier today, I cannot possibly suggest a winner. It's 100% down to preference. If you want a car to commute in, a fast, effortless, comfortable and modern car that's also quite fun in the right scenario, the Supra is a no brainer. For me, under £50,000 there's almost nothing else that does so many things so well. It is I think the best compromise of a sports car in that price bracket. If, however, your vehicle needs are a little more specialised: you want a weekend car; track car; or simply you're happy to sacrifice some daily refinement for the sake of weekend/B road fun, then the GR86 is a no brainer. Like the Supra, for under £50,000 I don't think there's a better all round sports car, all things considered, for the money. Sure, Alpine and Porsche offer some fantastic cars, better than the 86 in some circumstances, but at a much higher price point and with caveats (practicality, weird engine choices, reliability etc.).

Quite clearly based on my muttering, I do not regret my decision. The Supra is an awesome car, but the areas where it shines are not highly valuable to me. Although in many ways the Supra is the better car, for me, the GR86 is just so much better suited to my desires. Even if the two cars were the same price, I'd still make the same choice. The fact that the 86 is so much cheaper is little more than a bonus.

Believe it or not, I have tried to limit my output of rambling as much as possible. There are no doubt loads of well thought out and heavily considered opinions and points I've missed. If there are any specific questions comparing the two, I'm happy to answer. Also, if others have anything to add, or you agree/disagree, let's discuss! I'm keen to hear other opinions too!

Really enjoyed reading your post.

My friend is an owner of a 3.0 Supra and I have driven it many times and I agree the B58 in line 6 cylinder engine is the star and is beautifully engineered.

Also agree this engine is best suited to the ZF automatic transmission.

I do believe any sport coupe 3.0 litre or above should be mated to an automatic gearbox.

However, personal view, I couldn't live with the general asthetics of this car. I could never love the styling.

The GR86 on the other hand is a good looking coupe with a great drivetrain and manual gearbox and I look forward to ownership in the future.
 
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