GR86 Thoughts on six months of GR86 ownership (Elise and NSX content)

[Itcaptainslow]

I went from a S1 111S to a S3 S, mainly due to the former being a bit too hardcore (on Nitrons & Avon ZZR’s…!).

The S3 has the perfect balance. It still has the Elise spirit, but breathes with the road, rather than fights it. It doesn’t cook you in traffic (air con blowing on your face in the sunshine is lovely!), isn’t peaky (although the K-Series is a wonderful, wonderful engine, and two of my other cars have one - the VVC in particular is brilliant) and will settle to a cruise when you want to actually go somewhere in it.

I love mine and after eight years of ownership since new, I’ve no intention of ever selling it if I can at all help it. In peak operating window (a sunny, Sunday morning on an empty B-Road), there isn’t one other car that would be better.

The GR86 is brilliant, but the Elise is still the one. I adore that in the world of bloated, arms race, ever more remote performance cars, it’s more relevant than ever.

 

[911sse]

The throttle spacer from Verus is a great upgrade, the throttle response can be made slightly better with intake hose (using Greddy one), filter (AEM) and exhaust but it's still a far cry from a cable throttle from back in the days

Other than that, please do check the alignment as they are all over the place from factory. And depends on your taste, the front will need a lot of camber if driven hard (0 from factory on my car)

The GR86 is my daily car, the relatively "dull but refined" response compared to the noisy and hyperactive S660 is a plus for me. It's just about right after a few choice mods!

Did you have to use camber bolts on your car when it was being set up?

 

[Alex-GR86]

I went from a S1 111S to a S3 S, mainly due to the former being a bit too hardcore (on Nitrons & Avon ZZR’s…!).

The S3 has the perfect balance. It still has the Elise spirit, but breathes with the road, rather than fights it. It doesn’t cook you in traffic (air con blowing on your face in the sunshine is lovely!), isn’t peaky (although the K-Series is a wonderful, wonderful engine, and two of my other cars have one - the VVC in particular is brilliant) and will settle to a cruise when you want to actually go somewhere in it.

I love mine and after eight years of ownership since new, I’ve no intention of ever selling it if I can at all help it. In peak operating window (a sunny, Sunday morning on an empty B-Road), there isn’t one other car that would be better.

The GR86 is brilliant, but the Elise is still the one. I adore that in the world of bloated, arms race, ever more remote performance cars, it’s more relevant than ever.

Intrigued, what other two cars do you have with a K series? It’s much maligned but I love that engine. Had at least four cars with it in over the years and never had any issues.

 

[Itcaptainslow]

I’ve had so many it’s untrue - I’ve got quite good at doing head gaskets!

Currently, I’ve got a couple of 90’s era Rovers. I was brought up in them; my parents had a succession of them when I was a kid. I’ve ended up buying exactly the cars (apart from the colours) they had in the mid to late 90’s - an R8 series 214SEi, then possibly one of the most under the radar hot hatches ever, an R3 200Vi. There’s said to be under 20 roadworthy left of the Vi. Car perverts will know it has the 1.8 VVC found in the MGF and Elise 111S.

Check the MOT history on them both.

 

[Alex-GR86]

I’ve had so many it’s untrue - I’ve got quite good at doing head gaskets!

Currently, I’ve got a couple of 90’s era Rovers. I was brought up in them; my parents had a succession of them when I was a kid. I’ve ended up buying exactly the cars (apart from the colours) they had in the mid to late 90’s - an R8 series 214SEi, then possibly one of the most under the radar hot hatches ever, an R3 200Vi. There’s said to be under 20 roadworthy left of the Vi. Car perverts will know it has the 1.8 VVC found in the MGF and Elise 111S.

Check the MOT history on them both.

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Nice and a good effort keeping them going. I had a silver Vi back in the day and my dad had a green one. Could be quite quick down a b road.

 

[RedCarsGoFaster]

Thank you all for your kind words - I've very much enjoyed owning these cars, and I've enjoyed writing about them. I'm glad you've enjoyed what I've had to say!

It's interesting that Elise ownership seems to be a common factor among 86 owners, though perhaps I shouldn't be surprised. If you're a car enthusiast interested in a driving experience that prioritises light weight and handling over brute power punting you up the road then both cars will appeal; conversely if interior luxury, technology, and the ability to beat a diesel Golf in a drag race are what you look for in a car then neither vehicle is likely to be your cup of tea.

As a bit of an aside, the other day I went up to Caffeine and Machine in my 86 with a couple of friends with a BMW M2 and a Porsche 996. Great day out, but as I was exiting a roundabout onto a dual carriageway on the journey home, foot to the floor, right in the peak of the powerband and having a lovely time, the driver of the M2 noticed I was actually trying, pushed the throttle down, and went past me like I was standing still.

As a display of the Millennium Falcon level of performance available in a modern car it was genuinely impressive. Thing is, on the roads I like to drive on the turbos would barely have started spooling up before the next corner arrived, and the combination of vehicle size and sheer chassis competence would inevitably diminish your enjoyment of said corner somewhat. To each their own and all that.


I am intrigued by some of the other vehicles mentioned here . . .

@trebor : is that a Final Edition Elise? Great choice!

@Stardus. : I've seen a couple of S660s close up at Torque GT and think they're really interesting little cars. What brought you to yours, where did it come from, any mods?

@OldManMarkoos : My Elise was my only car for six years, and with a little bit of Boot Tetris it did remarkably well at that role apart from the days I had to move large objects. I did have to eventually make good on six years worth of favours from friends who had generously carted the big stuff around for me, though, and I don't miss having to drive it through the winter.

@Itcaptainslow : The K-series love is clearly strong! I agree that the K-series was a great engine, as well as a fantastic choice for the original Elise. I gather it is more reliable in its original, smaller displacement guises, but even if the 1.8 litre was the step that made the head gasket into a regular consumable it was probably still worth it. While people bemoan the expense and inconvenience of a head gasket replacement on the K-series, or the rotor tip replacement on an RX8, I remember having to pay Surrey prices for Alfa Romeo cambelt changes and I'm convinced that the belt services actually work out to more per mile . . .

Occasionally I marvel at the lightness of the vehicles that they managed to slot the K-series into. The Rover 200/25/MG ZR are all shockingly light by today's standards (I'm occasionally tempted to buy a ZR for no reason other than giggles), but then I remember that they put the K-series in a Metro and it weighed less than an S2 Elise. Madness. Combining one with a tricked-out higher displacement unit is ultimate sleeper build fantasy stuff.

Somewhere round here I have Autocar's review of the original Caterham R500 with a K-series tuned to 230bhp with roller-barrel throttle bodies. The mind boggles.

Was the 200Vi effectively a 200 BRM without the fancy face, or was there some other distinction?

The range of Elise variants over the years is remarkable and sometimes I get far, far too into it. I'm not sure there's ever been a bad one, though you don't hear much said about the brief run of 1.6-litre cars in 2010ish . . .

 

[Itcaptainslow]

The K-Series really does suit the brief of the Elise perfectly - dry they weigh so little.

If you want a cheap track car, the ZS is brilliant. Still reasonably light, but double wishbone suspension all round means it handles superbly. I loved mine.

The BRM was made from the Vi - additions were a shorter final drive, an LSD and slightly lower suspension, plus larger wheels. The irony is, there are now more BRM’s left than Vi’s, so the “rare” special edition is more common than the car which spawned it!

The last three of the additions actually spoil the drive over the Vi, in my opinion. I had a very fit BRM a few years ago (sold on Collecting Cars, which seemed to start the craze for asking stupid money for them - most of the cars left are now utterly rotten & shagged!, and the thing didn’t “flow” quite like the supple Vi does.

I wanted a Vi ever since my Dad taught me to drive aged 13 in their one in the grounds of a French gîte! I didn’t think I’d find one with the holy trinity of low mileage, totally original condition and no rust - this one appeared on eBay a few years ago, but I just missed it.

I then met the guy who bought it at Pride of Longbridge a couple of years ago, and somehow persuaded him that if he were to sell it, I should be his first port of call. He was true to his word…

If anyone has read the Chris Harris book - where he talks about being able to reel off all of a car’s stats, I could do that instantly in school for the Vi. I can still remember the figures now, nearly 30 years on…

I was the weird kid who didn’t really care about Ferrari & Lamborghini; I lusted after a small British sports car and a Midlands hot hatch, both probably assembled by someone called Nigel. At least I can say I’ve owned my dream cars

Do keep the in depth prose coming, RedCars. I feel this is a safe space for us!

 

[trebor]

I am intrigued by some of the other vehicles mentioned here . . .

@trebor : is that a Final Edition Elise? Great choice!

yes. In 2000 a neighbour has an S1 Elise and I said to myself I needed to get one at some point, well it took me over 20 years but I was in the process of buying a new Sport 220 during COVID lockdown then Lotus announced the end of the Elise/Exige/Evora. The dealership I was using basically said they therefore couldn’t get a 220 and there would be Final Editions but they wouldn’t be selling those! I started looking at used 220s, went to test drive one at another dealer and quite by chance they had one 240 Final Edition allocation remaining. I put a deposit down there and then. And miles of since having it.

The GR Yaris is fantastic too and between them I think I can make any drive enjoyable

 

[PaulT]

Yeah, I had an Elise as my daily for a year before giving up on the lack of practicality

It was a 1.6, and I wouldn't write it off as not having enough power. It's the lightest of this shape (2017 year) and although the 0-62 is about the same as the auto 86, the mid-engine layout makes it quite agile in corners.

They are tough to live with daily, the windscreen wiper doesn't work very well, steam pours out of the front clam when it rains, difficult to fit in with a helmet unless you are tiny etc. Mine was very reliable, though, and only a couple of silly little things went wrong.

The 86 is more of an all-rounder for me. I enjoy it on track just as much as the Lotus, but I can also fit things in. Fitting the boat on the roof of the Elise was a challenge

 

[Itcaptainslow]

Same colour as mine, Paul!

You were certainly committed running it as a daily car. I did so with my first S1 in my early 20’s; even then when I was a bit more forgiving of a crap heater, the car’s shortcomings that don’t matter on a Sunday morning very quickly take the shine off using it in winter.

I’ve never driven a 1.6, although I’ve been out in one, and it certainly felt bright enough, and probably the truest to the original concept.

 

[Stardus.]

@Stardus. : I've seen a couple of S660s close up at Torque GT and think they're really interesting little cars. What brought you to yours, where did it come from, any mods?

Just wanted something fun and econmical to drive, it's a Torque GT car and picked from auction.

When I got it, it have upgraded Modulo suspension and front aero but have quite a few mods done to it now

Blitz Strut brace, GReddy intercooler, GruppM carbon intake box (makes it sounds crazy fun), J's carbon rear spoiler, HKS Spec L exhaust, HKS computer and full custom remap. Endless brake pads at the moment.

The S660 is my weekend car and can't beat lightness and the tiny size when going around B roads. And off the shelf, the S660 have better balance on track too. I guess it's a Honda's Elise with less power but let you floor it way more of the time, different but kinda similar in concept

Mid engine, targa top, MT, rear wheel drive, small and lightweight

 

[Electric Blue]

This is a great thread.

 

[RedCarsGoFaster]

@Itcaptainslow - that's some first-rate nerdery on the Rover special editions! As you say, a shame that so few of that class of car survive these days.

Last year I went on a visit to an exotic car storage centre open day - modern supercars everywhere, minimal miles, coddled, shiny and all the rest of it, and somehow it left me a little cold. Then I went out into the car park and saw that someone had turned up in a Rover 827 Sterling, and immediately thought "Yes. This is my kind of nerd". Always good to be reminded that there are many different ways to appreciate the world of cars, and that the latest greatest metal isn't automatically the most exciting.

The K-series has been mated to some great lightweight cars over the years, with that ultra-compact, ultra-light packaging just making it perfect for those applications. It was so ubiquitous in the lightweight sports car space that I think I probably still have some valuable brain space dedicated to the various tuning options available in Caterhams, Elises etc. 190 bhp VHPD in the Lotus 340R, mmn yes please . . .

I too have read the Chris Harris book, and the ability to reel off obscure facts and statistics did very much ring a bell here. Great to have something that hooks your interest and just sticks!


@Stardus. - that S660 is a great looking little thing. For a moment you had me wondering if I should go try and find one to see what it's like to drive, but then I remembered that no matter how small a third car might be, it's never going to small enough to fit into a parking space that I don't have.

If I had unlimited parking I would be in so much trouble. The NSX probably wouldn't have gone for a start, and then there would be the temptation for an S660, and the inevitable MG ZR bought on a whim, and that's just the cars in this thread . . .

Without first-hand experience I'm tempted to compare the S660 more closely to the Smart Roadster than the Elise - smaller footprint (one might say hilariously so), more creature comforts, different approach to powertrain etc. I fully see the appeal

Is yours auto or manual? Any idea what the engine tweaks might push the power up to?


@PaulT - that boat photo is amazing, and the mind boggles at the prospect of driving that combination around. I think you may win a prize for largest object ever carried by an Elise!

I would concur with your assessment of the flaws of the Elise for use every day, and would further observe that the phenomenon of the radiator spontaneously generating steam on rainy days has the additional drawback of obscuring the early stages of the inevitable radiator failure. TADTS, etc. Yours probably would have had the fixed resistor pack so the heater fan controller wouldn't have died on a crisp - no, make that "bitter" - December morning in the middle of a trip to Scotland


@trebor - A GR Yaris and an Elise makes for a great 2-car garage. Sensible hatchback for the week, then a little two-seat sports car for the weekends - and for it to be a Final Edition is just the cherry on the cake. They may never have made a bad Elise, but the Final Edition is one of a couple which might claim to stand out.

I did a track experience day at Hethel just before Elise production ended . . . on which I did not get to drive a Final Edition, because I drew the short straw and had to drive the Sport 220 that was standing in for a Final Edition with a mechanical issue. Obviously it completely spoiled the experience.

It was fascinating to drive a brand-new Elise and compare it to mine to see what had changed over fifteen years. Of course the new car had airbags, a digital dash, and stacks more power, but it felt overwhelmingly familiar and I was immediately at home. The one thing that really did change the experience was the redesigned gearchange mechanism that Lotus put in the later cars, with a shorter throw and much more tightly controlled gates. The evolution of the Elise gearchange over the years is a rabbit hole in its own right, but they absolutely nailed it right at the end. My car doesn't have the worst of them, but even so I might put an aftermarket mechanism in it one day.


. . . should I mention a GR86 in this post somewhere? Oh yes, my Verus pedal spacer has arrived. Haven't fitted it yet. Message ends.