GR Yaris Alignment, Camber and handling related talks

[Duke]

Got a full alignment done at a local motorsport place.

Rather than provide settings that people have posted here, I asked for their own settings (they have a quite a few Yariseses on their books) but without going crazy on the camber, which they were in alignment (!) with anyway for fast road. The thing already grips like mad anyway, no need to go nuclear and then burn though tryes unnecessarily I reckon.

My thinking was, if there are any problems with the alignment (too twitchy etc.) then I can reasonably expect them to sort it out and they'll not just be like 'your figures mate '

Ended up like this:

Surprised they got so much camber on the rear, I had thought that was pretty much fixed but looking around it seems other people have managed similar.

As can be seen from the 'before' figures, there wasn't much wrong with the standard setup even after three years (not too many potholes etc.!) so it felt good anyway. You can definitely feel the improvement with the new settings though, but it will take a little time for me to trust it implicitly again!

 

[Yaris San]

Got a full alignment done at a local motorsport place.

Rather than provide settings that people have posted here, I asked for their own settings (they have a quite a few Yariseses on their books) but without going crazy on the camber, which they were in alignment (!) with anyway for fast road. The thing already grips like mad anyway, no need to go nuclear and then burn though tryes unnecessarily I reckon.

My thinking was, if there are any problems with the alignment (too twitchy etc.) then I can reasonably expect them to sort it out and they'll not just be like 'your figures mate '

Ended up like this:

View attachment 36774

Surprised they got so much camber on the rear, I had thought that was pretty much fixed but looking around it seems other people have managed similar.

As can be seen from the 'before' figures, there wasn't much wrong with the standard setup even after three years (not too many potholes etc.!) so it felt good anyway. You can definitely feel the improvement with the new settings though, but it will take a little time for me to trust it implicitly again!

fair bit of toe IN going on there, does it understeer ?? also possible exaggerated tyre wear at rear

 

[Duke]

fair bit of toe IN going on there, does it understeer ?? also possible exaggerated tyre wear at rear

Not a jot of understeer, no.

It’s less toe-in at the front than before, and only a few more mins at the rear.

Time will tell!

 

[Yohz78]

Not a jot of understeer, no.

It’s less toe-in at the front than before, and only a few more mins at the rear.

Time will tell!

It is a lot of toe rear, you may destroy your tyre.

I tried a similar setting and I found the car had become really tail-lazy. Going back to lower toe in value rear is a lot better in my opinion 0.0° 3' toe in each side rear was the best to me. I use a bit of toe out (3') front. The car is lovely and the low toe values avoid destroying the tyres

 

[LittleMav]

Can anyone help me to better understand how the camber difference front-rear impacts the drive please? For instance if you have neg. 2.5 front and neg. 1.5 rear and change to neg. 2.0 rear (keepging everything else equal), what is the impact on under/oversteer and how the car behaves in low/high speeds? Thank you!

 

[LittleMav]

Exploring new setups with the switch to Öhlins.
Had previously the H&R swaybars both front & rear set to hard on stock suspension to limit the roll. Alignment was then:
Camber front / rear: -2.4 / -2
Total toe OUT front / rear: -14 / -12 minutes
Swaybars front / rear: hard / hard

In these settings, the swaybar in front is 137% stiffer than OEM, rear 105%. Was happy with it overall; turn-in was nice and it did understeer at the limit.

The 1st setting with the Öhlins is:

Camber front / rear: -2.4 / -2.2
Toe OUT front: 11 minutes total
Toe IN rear: 6 minutes total
Swaybar front / rear: soft (61% stiffer than OEM) / hard (105% stiffer than OEM)

The goal is a „tad understeery setup at the limit“.

Did not drive much yet; it could perhaps be rather oversteery. We‘ll see….

 

[Yaris San]

Exploring new setups with the switch to Öhlins.
Had previously the H&R swaybars both front & rear set to hard on stock suspension to limit the roll. Alignment was then:
Camber front / rear: -2.4 / -2
Total toe OUT front / rear: -14 / -12 minutes
Swaybars front / rear: hard / hard

In these settings, the swaybar in front is 137% stiffer than OEM, rear 105%. Was happy with it overall; turn-in was nice and it did understeer at the limit.

The 1st setting with the Öhlins is:

Camber front / rear: -2.4 / -2.2
Toe OUT front: 11 minutes total
Toe IN rear: 6 minutes total
Swaybar front / rear: soft (61% stiffer than OEM) / hard (105% stiffer than OEM)

The goal is a „tad understeery setup at the limit“.

Did not drive much yet; it could perhaps be rather oversteery. We‘ll see….

have you the factory rear trailing arms with rubber bush or aftermarket spherical bush

 

[LittleMav]

have you the factory rear trailing arms with rubber bush or aftermarket spherical bush

Currently the factory rubber bush; I‘ve ordered an aftermarket one, but delivery times require an elevated amount of patience…

 

[Yohz78]

Currently the factory rubber bush; I‘ve ordered an aftermarket one, but delivery times require an elevated amount of patience…

How do you like the ohlins for now ?

I'm eager to have them but at the same time I find it hard to justify the price.

 

[Michael Knight]

Anyone using Cusco Sport G? They seem to have both gravel and tarmac setups available with reasonable price. Gravel seems to have proper ground clearance aswell.

 

[LittleMav]

How do you like the ohlins for now ?

I'm eager to have them but at the same time I find it hard to justify the price.

Agree they are pricy; but as a reference: had the kwv3 on several cars now and I like the R&T better. My 15 year old Mini is currently on KW and I’m actually considering a switch there too…

It is definitively more comfortable and more sporty than the GR stock suspension (which I was happy with). To find the final ride high and set up will take some time though as I really want to experience and test myself…

If there is a downside (for now): I don’t „feel“ the car the same way I did with the stock suspension. As of now, it is „easy to go faster than before“, but the car is „less communicative“. And in my book, faster is not always more fun…

 

[Michael Knight]

Agree they are pricy; but as a reference: had the kwv3 on several cars now and I like the R&T better. My 15 year old Mini is currently on KW and I’m actually considering a switch there too…

It is definitively more comfortable and more sporty than the GR stock suspension (which I was happy with). To find the final ride high and set up will take some time though as I really want to experience and test myself…

If there is a downside (for now): I don’t „feel“ the car the same way I did with the stock suspension. As of now, it is „easy to go faster than before“, but the car is „less communicative“. And in my book, faster is not always more fun…

is it due to better suspension so you have lack of feel for the bumps or what is the case here?
stiffer springs eliminate chassis movement so you cannot play that easily with weight transfer but I believe road feel should not be destroyed with better suspension?

 

[LittleMav]

stiffer springs eliminate chassis movement so you cannot play that easily with weight transfer

This.
I went for an extended drive over some mountains today; fun started increasing again…

 

[Yohz78]

This.
I went for an extended drive over some mountains today; fun started increasing again…

It seems normal to loose your old feeling as the car behavior changes a lot. After going from 225/40 PS4S to 235/40 GYSS I needed a few B-Road blast before finding feeling again. At first I was not fond of the GYSS but now I definitely would not go back to 225/40 PS4S, GYSS are a lot sportier, temps and pressure management is better, side wall and feel is better ect ect ...

I won't do ohlins soon but maybe in one year or two if I want to do more trackday or make it a bit "new"

 

[micsub]

Exploring new setups with the switch to Öhlins.
Had previously the H&R swaybars both front & rear set to hard on stock suspension to limit the roll. Alignment was then:
Camber front / rear: -2.4 / -2
Total toe OUT front / rear: -14 / -12 minutes
Swaybars front / rear: hard / hard

In these settings, the swaybar in front is 137% stiffer than OEM, rear 105%. Was happy with it overall; turn-in was nice and it did understeer at the limit.

The 1st setting with the Öhlins is:

Camber front / rear: -2.4 / -2.2
Toe OUT front: 11 minutes total
Toe IN rear: 6 minutes total
Swaybar front / rear: soft (61% stiffer than OEM) / hard (105% stiffer than OEM)

The goal is a „tad understeery setup at the limit“.

Did not drive much yet; it could perhaps be rather oversteery. We‘ll see….

Hi, check this out for adjusting your swaybars correctly

 

[boiNXTdoor]

Went for an alignment at Toyota today. I used one 90105-17013 bolt per corner at front.

Asked for 0 degrees 3min negative toe and max camber front expecting -2'4 decimal degrees. Also max negative camber rear and +0degrees3min on stock bolts.

Apparently they only managed to get -2,17 decimal degrees camber front after toe adjustment.

Is this normal? Should I have went with 17014 bolts to reach my goal of -2,4 degrees?

Also they left a 15 minute difference of camber between rear left and right. It this "acceptable"? (Or however you want to call it).

Final values are on right column. Front toe is 2nd line and front camber is 3rd. Rear toe and camber are 3rd and 2nd starting from the bottom.

 

[Spirited]

Went for an alignment at Toyota today. I used one 90105-17013 bolt per corner at front.

Asked for 0 degrees 3min negative toe and max camber front expecting -2'4 decimal degrees. Also max negative camber rear and +0degrees3min on stock bolts.

Apparently they only managed to get -2,17 decimal degrees camber front after toe adjustment.

Is this normal? Should I have went with 17014 bolts to reach my goal of -2,4 degrees?

Also they left a 15 minute difference of camber between rear left and right. It this "acceptable"? (Or however you want to call it).

Final values are on right column. Front toe is 2nd line and front camber is 3rd. Rear toe and camber are 3rd and 2nd starting from the bottom.

View attachment 38520

Personal opinion, no expert here:

Regarding your expected vs achieved front camber, I don't know if it's normal with the bolts used or if you should have used other bolts. Don't be surprised, though, if you take the car for a short, mixed drive (to let the suspension settle a bit), get geo settings readings by a different machine and find these to be different.

Rear left-right camber difference is acceptable, based on the Toyota manual, how I understand it and that these settings likely change depending on you or anyone else too being in the car. It's toe you should be concerned about if there was even minimal difference or (eg, 3x) greater camber difference.

Personally, I would be a bit concerned with the c1 degree front-rear camber difference you were aiming for, especially with such little rear toe in. I would be concerned that the car's rear might become too lively, without you inducing or expecting it. The balance you have achieved seems more healthy to me; even more as a starting point.

 

[zoid]

@boiNXTdoor
Also, since you haven’t modified the rear suspension, the camber values are fixed and do not change....

 

[boiNXTdoor]

Personally, I would be a bit concerned with the c1 degree front-rear camber difference you were aiming for, especially with such little rear toe in. I would be concerned that the car's rear might become too lively, without you inducing or expecting it.

Well that's my intention lol.

I was aiming for a 0,5 decimal degree difference front-rear (since rear is 2 degrees camber stock and can't be adjusted I would only need to give front axis 2,5°). This car is very little ajustable stock. The rear doesn't move at all unless you do stupid shit and at the limit it feels like you could get more out of the car with a more oversteer prone setup.

I've still got to get used to the new alignment, but I can tell it's definitely better now than stock. The car feels more willing to change direction and faster to balance into corners.

 

[micsub]

With OE suspension layout, Rear camber changes as you adjust toe unfortunately. The only way to allow independent rear camber adjustment from the toe adjustment, is to replace the top arms by adjustable ones, or use specific camber bolts which are cheaper and quicker to adjust the rear camber.