@DobiLux I thought you (or anyone else) would never ask! Ok, if you insist, I'll share my insights and settings. For context, my car is modified to the point that my insurer said "no more mods", but in practice that means essentially just engine/gearbox mounts polybushing (so, not relevant to alignment, I guess) and the recent 4x Powerflex camber bolts installation and custom geo settings. Also, I have no interest in autobahn high speed straights (they only give me fear without any thrill), so you will probably find limited value below for such occasions.
Firstly some name-dropping to give credit both to my post and the forumites who helped in my quest similar to yours
I found insights by
@DeanoC ,
@Lauren ,
@AP756 ,
@Phil1291 ,
@MagnusT ,
@MarkoS and
@Yaris San very useful (and them very helpful). I then realised that despite the attractiveness of more aggressive setups, these are more or exclusively suited to track use and can have significant disadvantages on the road.
I kept reading online and realising in practice how wise it was of Toyota to offer us the car set up for understeer to start with (rather than neutral or oversteer). I appreciate that you may feel it's neutral and yours may be. Mine felt neutral and as the tyres were getting worn and I better at reaching the limit, it felt more and more understeery. To the point that after (quite) a few thousand miles it got annoying. But I'm glad I went through the journey and the occasional antics of the GRY tail in the safety of understeer.
During that process I started paying more attention to extremely useful posts like
@Michael Knight 's,
@Orion 's and especially
@Onehp 's who systematically and tirelessly pointed out the risk associated with aggressive geo setups and challenged public domain posts that could be open to misinterpretation. Eg:
Some pics of how much difference camber adjustment can make to how your wheels and tyres sit mid corner:
www.gr-zoo.com
Or camber bolts. Yea @lee1563 pointed that out. I ordered some 👌
www.gr-zoo.com
I appreciated the complexity of suspension geometry and the inter-relationships; eg ask an expert how the car will be with -2º camber and they shouldn't be able to answer unless you provide the rest of the geo settings, car setup, etc (I guess it can be oversteery with -0.5º and tow out at the rear or understeery with -2.5º and toe in at the rear). As well as whose hands the car will be in.
With that last thing in mind, I started with the most conservative of aggressive fast B-road setups, as I see it, which should still allow me to spend a lot of time cruising on the motorway without killing the tyres or anyone. I used
@DrSetup 's insights as a baseline and misbehaved a bit by going slight toe out (instead of in) at front to start with.
So, here are
my settings and the thinking behind each:
- Front
- Camber (approximately): -2.5° = -2° 30' [on the caveat that my desired setting for the rear will be achieved too]. This is more or less the maximum negative camber I felt is wise for a baseline and quite possibly the max it would make sense for road-only use. I'd probably like to experience how the car feels with even more, but I'm inclined to explore getting that additional negative camber in the dynamic form, through added caster.
- Toe (exactly): -0.05° (= -0°03' = -0.4mm) each side [this is toe out]. To come closer to experiencing a more direct/precise turn-in without killing the tyres on the motorway (hopefully).
- Rear
- Camber (approximately): -2.2° = -2°12' [to keep some, yet minimal front-rear difference]. "Some" to allow oversteer tendencies to still be possible and "minimal" so that any such oversteer isn't too much. I wouldn't want the lighter rear to be far less grippy than the front.
- Toe (exactly): 0.10° (= 0°06' = 0.8mm) each side [this is toe in]. For safety, ie straight, braking and higher speed stability, and to keep unintentional oversteer (including the lift-off kind) under control. If I very occasionally and briefly want more oversteer, I should be able to increase rear tyre pressures (just a bit & just for a bit). If/when I realise I want it more often, I should have developed as a GRY driver to be in a better position to handle it and could go for a less-rear-toe-in setup. I'd rather lean towards safety to start with, though.
In that spirit, as soon as the new settings were set up, I started with Normal drive mode, gradually and cautiously proceeding to Sport/Track, Expert, etc.
Initial impressions are that the car has lost most of its understeery character, while remaining an AWD (ie it hasn't transformed to a rear wheel drive) and not catching me by surprise (by the rear trying to overtake me), including evasive action maneuvers at motorway speed. I have not yet felt the transformation that many talk about (eg pointy/darty due to toe out, extreme lateral grip due to camber, elimination of understeer), but it's still very early days for me and I prefer to push and learn gradually. The benefits are clearly there, though, at all the areas I mention in brackets, just not jaw-dropping for me. I guess I've been spoilt by how well the GRY drove anyway, so tend to forget how impressive my daily car actually drives. Plus, I opted for more conservative settings with no drama.
A few
lessons I learned on the side, throughout my research process:
- Yes, the perfect geo settings can be a very subjective thing; but, also, there are universal principles that always apply. I doubt one can achieve their perfect settings solely by reading forums, but it certainly helps build a solid foundation, saving time, money and potentially lives.
- Go easy, ie approach with caution, one "aggressive setup" step at a time, aiming for the car's setup to match your driving style & use (both for safety and tyre longevity). Let the theory sink in, explore/digest implications and drawbacks (don't just focus on others' enthusiastic feedback) and then throw some practice in the mix (ie actual geo changes to your car & time to learn the car's new tricks) before you go to the next level.
- Consider wider implications. Eg, who will perform the changes (do they know their stuff, the correct torque settings, etc?), how much will it cost (I believe it took an experienced mechanic 2-2.5 hours to install and set up my bolts & settings), is it a good idea to combine with new tyres (especially from a safety point of view), insurance implications, etc.
Some
torque settings I hope are correct:
Front
Camber - Max Nm torque for bolts:
· black Powerflex (upper): 122
· silver Toyota (lower): 270
Toe - Nm torque for nuts:
· 74.5
· when using a union nut wrench (fulcrum length 30mm) + torque wrench (fulcrum length 255mm): 66.7
Rear
Camber - Max torque for Powerflex camber bolt: 75 Nm
Toe - Torque for the nut: 100 Nm
Big thanks to everyone who mentored me virtually, with or without them intending/realising
