GR86 Engine Failure

[KobayashiMaru86]

Not sure of the full story as I'm relying on translation but seems sealant from somewhere got into the engine. Similar happened to some GT86s that had the recall too.

 

[garybee]

Very odd to see this from a factory engine build. I've seen it loads of times with rebuilds from garages/individuals but never an initial build from a manufacturer. It's one of the main reasons I choose to replace failed engines with one from a salvage yard over a reconditioned lump.

These are automated processes where a measured quantity of RTV is applied robotically. I'd put good money on them all being the same.

Were the GT86s this occurred to unmolested factory engine builds?

Edit: Looks like the GT86 issues were due to poor quality work carried out after initial build. That's what I would expect to cause this issue.

 

[Mike]

There have been cases of blocked strainers from unopened engines on gt86s. Not as many as a result of recalls but it has happened

 

[garybee]

I've never seen it myself in a factory built engine from a major manufacturer. Simply because of how this process is carried out there shouldn't be any excess sealant to end up in the oil system. Errors can always occur of course but it would need to be something really odd such as a machine failing to meter the sealant it applied correctly. It seems far more likely that someone's fibbing about the state of an engine than an OE mistake.

Where have you seen this happen to an unopened engine? I'm always interested to hear of other people's experiences.

 

[ZN8]

Oh dear oh dear oh dear. Not a post I wanted to see.

Up until about 2014 a number of GT86s/BRZs/FR-Ss suffered from engine failures due to poor use of sealant. It would become dislodged, block oil ways and starve bearings of oil. This was a factory QC issue. RTV sealant is extensively used in these Subaru engines.

Here's hoping it's just a one off.

 

[AndyRC]

10 Year Toyota Warranty , therefore I’m not concerned, all service at local dealership, it breaks they (Toyota) will fix it

PS I won’t be messing with the engine or transmission

 

[KobayashiMaru86]

Another one. For me when it comes to engine mods is the first 2 years that are key. If nothing happens within that period then I'll be happy to modify.

 

[AndyRC]

Another one. For me when it comes to engine mods is the first 2 years that are key. If nothing happens within that period then I'll be happy to modify.

View attachment 6045View attachment 6046

A wise decision, I remember some years back VAG had turbo failure issues (manufacturing fault I think) with the early A888 engine used in Audi TT and Golf R , folk were mapping them and turbos failing then lots are arguments about why as the ECU wasn’t standard and who would pay

 

[ZN8]

Great, what a pain in the a*se this is going to be.

 

[KobayashiMaru86]

At least it confirms that it's wise to do an oil change at 1000 miles. You could do it yourself to be sure but I'm not sure how that goes with warranty. The dealer could do it but then you'd never see the contents of the old oil. But if you do it and find an issue, how do you stand then? If it's on stick and obvious that better but if the oil is full of bits, unless you do it you'll never see it.

 

[ZN8]

The safest bet would be to ask Toyota to do it, but to take off the sump to inspect the pick up strainer and the sump pan itself. Assuming its all caught in the strainer then an oil pressure gauge would be a good idea, your more likely to pick up an issue before its too late.

The Americans are normally a very vocal bunch, I've not read anything of engine failures from them, they've had their BRZs since December and GR86s not long after. Maybe its affecting slightly later cars? It's hard to determine from the translation but both quotes those failures mention the world 'rumour' of engine failures in Japan.

 

[Conscript]

At least it confirms that it's wise to do an oil change at 1000 miles. You could do it yourself to be sure but I'm not sure how that goes with warranty. The dealer could do it but then you'd never see the contents of the old oil. But if you do it and find an issue, how do you stand then? If it's on stick and obvious that better but if the oil is full of bits, unless you do it you'll never see it.

I'm not sure they'd be able to tell, would they? I'm thinking of doing a 1K change myself as it's quick and easy to do. As long as you use a branded OEM filter and sump plug washer I'd doubt they'd be any the wiser.

 

[ZN8]

I think it's more an issue if you do find something. How do you explain what you found and how you found it without the challenge of 'was it an approved garage that did your oil change?'

You'd like to think it wouldn't be an issue as Toyota UK are typically relaxed compared to other marques and other markets but you never know.

 

[SJR202]

Pic above is the oil dipstick damaged?

Is a 1k oil change part of the service schedule or just something you want to do yourself for peace of mind?

From reading my warranty doc from another manufacturer all servicing to maintain warranty needs to be carried out by either an approved dealer (Land Rover in this case), or a VAT registered garage using only genuine Land Rover parts etc etc.
Doing it yourself on the drive I suspect would give the warranty company (if not Toyota an underwriter) wiggle room to get out of payment. All service records will be on the central database. For the sake of a few hundred pounds on a brand new car with potential of 10 year warranty I'll give it to Toyota to do this one

 

[ZN8]

Pic above is the oil dipstick damaged?

No the grey bits on the end is sealant where it shouldn't be.

 

[gooly]

I think some context and reality would be helpful here - we've heard two stories of failure and the car has been out for around a year already, with many being tracked, modified and some already being boosted in Japan. Some failures due to factory QC are to be expected, as they are on any car, and they will be covered under warranty, but given the usage and popularity of the GR86 / BRZ so far, a handful of known failures is pretty normal.

Excessive RTV sealant isn't an inherent design flaw that will present long term or specifically under hard use, which are my main two concerns - if your engine makes it through the first year or two then its guaranteed to be fine, and if it blows up you'll get a new one on warranty anyway.

You can google most popular sports cars (and regular cars) and find stories like this everywhere - the difference is most manufacturers aren't as easy to deal with. Without wanting to get into naïve generalisations, I don't think Toyota would bother with a 10 year warranty if they weren't reasonably confident in the FA24.

I used to build engines a few years ago for a well-known supercar brand, who's entry level fare was worth an easy 5x what the GR86 was - their engine recall rate was in the double figure %s. Influencers and Youtubers still buy their cars in droves, and you don't hear a peep about the inherent flaws in their oil / cooling circuits. This isn't worth worrying about.

 

[Conscript]

Pic above is the oil dipstick damaged?

Is a 1k oil change part of the service schedule or just something you want to do yourself for peace of mind?

From reading my warranty doc from another manufacturer all servicing to maintain warranty needs to be carried out by either an approved dealer (Land Rover in this case), or a VAT registered garage using only genuine Land Rover parts etc etc.
Doing it yourself on the drive I suspect would give the warranty company (if not Toyota an underwriter) wiggle room to get out of payment. All service records will be on the central database. For the sake of a few hundred pounds on a brand new car with potential of 10 year warranty I'll give it to Toyota to do this one

It's not part of the schedule, no. But if the break in period is 1000 miles, then it seems like it would be sensible to just change the oil after that period, as that's when most wear is going to have occurred. I could do it on the drive easily in about 15 minutes, so for a brand new car that I intend to keep for a long time, it wouldn't be much skin off my nose for a bit of peace of mind that I'm doing the best of the engine's longevity. Perhaps I've just been watching too much M539 Restorations on YouTube

I'm still not sure there's any risk to the warranty. Yes, the warranty is only valid if you ensure you meet the service schedule requirements, but an additional oil change (with genuine parts) would exceed those requirements. But as I probably wouldn't bother documenting it anyway, it seems a moot point - it's just for my own benefit.

I think it's more an issue if you do find something. How do you explain what you found and how you found it without the challenge of 'was it an approved garage that did your oil change?'

You'd like to think it wouldn't be an issue as Toyota UK are typically relaxed compared to other marques and other markets but you never know.

Ahh I see. I was thinking more of just doing it as a precaution. I wasn't even sure just an oil change would find the problem mentioned, unless some of the fragments came out with the oil.

 

[Electric Blue]

I used to build engines a few years ago for a well-known supercar brand, who's entry level fare was worth an easy 5x what the GR86 was - their engine recall rate was in the double figure %s.

You obviously weren't very good at building them then

 

[gooly]

You obviously weren't very good at building them then

fair point

 

[SJR202]

It's not part of the schedule, no. But if the break in period is 1000 miles, then it seems like it would be sensible to just change the oil after that period, as that's when most wear is going to have occurred. I could do it on the drive easily in about 15 minutes, so for a brand new car that I intend to keep for a long time, it wouldn't be much skin off my nose for a bit of peace of mind that I'm doing the best of the engine's longevity. Perhaps I've just been watching too much M539 Restorations on YouTube

I'm still not sure there's any risk to the warranty. Yes, the warranty is only valid if you ensure you meet the service schedule requirements, but an additional oil change (with genuine parts) would exceed those requirements. But as I probably wouldn't bother documenting it anyway, it seems a moot point - it's just for my own benefit.


Ahh I see. I was thinking more of just doing it as a precaution. I wasn't even sure just an oil change would find the problem mentioned, unless some of the fragments came out with the oil.

Ah, makes complete sense
Agree, once initial running in period is done then having clean oil would be a great idea before opening up to the red line! Has me thinking!