GR Yaris Alignment, Camber and handling related talks

[Orion]

Luckily the rear is more or less idling in this car so As @Onehp said rotating helps alot.
I'm likely going for -2.8F and -2.5R for camber. Maybe it is an improvement to as is.

It won't be idling on -2.7R camber anymore
At least, the tire on first photo (with the dogo ) is a rear tyre
I do have a per-side 2mm (12' = 0.2°) toe in on rear. It did not produce any unever wear with factory -2R rear camber. After setting -2.7R I am having this wear.

 

[Orion]

BTW my reason (may not be valid, though) for running front/rear toe in was to counterweight the heavy inner wear caused by aggressive camber

The way I understand, toe in causes outter wear, toe out causes inner wear
Negative camber causes inner wear

Reference e.g. https://www.yokohamatruck.com/tires-101/maintenance-care/alignment

 

[Orion]

Got my alignment done last week (from too much toe in (0.2-0.3) to 0.07 degrees toe out) and noticed the improvement in steering feel.
Given many YT reviews have said GR's steering feel is not the greatest - one could argue it can be caused because of poor front axle setup.
I think the steering feel is now quite good.

On the downside noticed on snowy freeway is that car is quite wiggly to drive - it was constantly turning to either direction. On asphalt it went fine, but on loose surface it was quite much more difficult to keep it going straight. Not that of an biggie but good to notice before you make any setup changes.

All in all have been happy with the setup changes done, and recommend it to whoever gets their GR - check the alignment and add some camber in front!

View attachment 1435

From factory we all had toe in front/rear
I changed that to parallel toe front, and even then I had noticable tramlining/wiggling
Finally I settled on per-side 0.05deg = 3' toe in front
I was never brave enough for rear toe out.

 

[Michael Knight]

BTW my reason (may not be valid, though) for running front/rear toe in was to counterweight the heavy inner wear caused by aggressive camber

The way I understand, toe in causes outter wear, toe out causes inner wear
Negative camber causes inner wear

Reference e.g. https://www.yokohamatruck.com/tires-101/maintenance-care/alignment

this is interesting topic.
my slight toe out hasn't worn out inner tire much, but would surely like to understand the sweetspot in terms of toe for tire longeivity (not excessive wear) with good steering wheel.

 

[Humptydumptyhadabigone]

Mine neither but I suspect the tyres are spending more time exceeding slip angles than developing chicken strips.

 

[Spirited]

this is interesting topic.
my slight toe out hasn't worn out inner tire much, but would surely like to understand the sweetspot in terms of toe for tire longeivity (not excessive wear) with good steering wheel.

If you're happy with the wear with your setting:

Not much, was it 6-8minutes toe out front and same toe in rear. let me check the datasheet.
View attachment 25415

then, that's probably the sweetspot for you and your use. Same setting was posted as part of a setup by RRG Macclesfield.

That's based on my understanding that 7 minutes each side is more than many would go for to achieve a liveable tyre wear. For example, @DeanoC with rather aggresive settings and track use was only posting settings of 4-5 minutes out. Same setting was posted as part of a setup by Litchfield.

All the above are also more or less in line with @Phil1291 's recommendation, as I understand it:

GR Yaris - Rear Toe adjustment

I'm looking at adjusting the front and rear toe next week. I will be looking to get +/-1mm toe on the rear. Looking through previous threads it is not clear if the rear toe is easy to adjust or if you need to change anything on the car to allow the adjustment. Can you please advise if/what is...

www.gr-zoo.com

For sth more aggressive you can see 1mm mentioned by @Phil1291 on the above link and on

GR Yaris - Geo fast road help and track set up

Or camber bolts. Yea @lee1563 pointed that out. I ordered some 👌

www.gr-zoo.com

as well as by @AdrianoJamesPiras @8:12 of


but I'll be surprised if such a setting remains within sweetspot parameters in terms of tyre wear.

 

[Michael Knight]

what are the factory torque (Nm) specs for front and rear camber bolts?

edit.
Reading the powerflex manual it says
Rear PFA100-12-70= M12 x 70mm long, torque settings 46 lb-ft / 63 Nm

Front

this is confusing. install instructions say PFA100-17 252Nm but page itself says
Size: 17mm (Drehmoment) 90 lb-ft / 122 Nm ??

 

[Spirited]

what are the factory torque (Nm) specs for front and rear camber bolts?

edit.
Reading the powerflex manual it says
Rear PFA100-12-70= M12 x 70mm long, torque settings 46 lb-ft / 63 Nm

Front

this is confusing. install instructions say PFA100-17 252Nm but page itself says
Size: 17mm (Drehmoment) 90 lb-ft / 122 Nm ??

Here are the instructions I gave my fitter, if this helps:

Front - Max Nm torque for bolts:
· black Powerflex (upper): 122
· silver Toyota (lower): 270

Rear - Max torque for Powerflex camber bolt: 75 Nm

What settings were applied behind closed doors... who knows. Never had an issue, though.

 

[Michael Knight]

Here are the instructions I gave my fitter, if this helps:

Front - Max Nm torque for bolts:
· black Powerflex (upper): 122
· silver Toyota (lower): 270

Rear - Max torque for Powerflex camber bolt: 75 Nm

What settings were applied behind closed doors... who knows. Never had an issue, though.

Is the stock Toyota lower bolt enough for -2.8' camber, or does it need some narrower bolt?

 

[Orion]

By replacing just the upper bolt with a whiteline camber bolt (KCA417) the max front camber was be -3.5° ( I dialed it back to -2.9° though)
I think the powerflex front bolt offers the exact same range
(My factory camber was FL/FR -1.4°/-1.7°)

 

[Orion]

By replacing just the upper bolt with a whiteline camber bolt (KCA417) the max front camber was be -3.5° ( I dialed it back to -2.9° though)
I think the powerflex front bolt offers the exact same range
(My factory camber was FL/FR -1.4°/-1.7°)

one more thing... and this wasn't at all obvious to the renowned shop I did the installation back then....?
to reach the theoretical max offered by the camber bolt, one needs to pay extra attention to really position the tab on both tab washers (per side) horizontally inwards, otherwise -- given the theory behind camber bolt operation -- they just won't work in their full range.

Install PDF from powerflex, fitting instruction #3

 

[Michael Knight]

one more thing... and this wasn't at all obvious to the renowned shop I did the installation back then....?
to reach the theoretical max offered by the camber bolt, one needs to pay extra attention to really position the tab on both tab washers (per side) horizontally inwards, otherwise -- given the theory behind camber bolt operation -- they just won't work in their full range.

Install PDF from powerflex, fitting instruction #3

good point, I've printed out that instruction and will deliver it to them for the alignment.
The rear spindle lower bolts were both quite loose, any idea of their recommended torque spec?

 

[Sekred]

good point, I've printed out that instruction and will deliver it to them for the alignment.
The rear spindle lower bolts were both quite loose, any idea of their recommended torque spec?

No idea on the actual torque spec but typically suspension bolts are metric grade 10.9.
I generally use Generic torque specs if I can't find OEM specs as long as I am not dealing with alloy housings.

 

[Michael Knight]

No idea on the actual torque spec but typically suspension bolts are metric grade 10.9.
I generally use Generic torque specs if I can't find OEM specs as long as I am not dealing with alloy housings.

thanks for the hint, need to check them once car back from alignment

 

[Spirited]

Is the stock Toyota lower bolt enough for -2.8' camber, or does it need some narrower bolt?

I've never had such a setting; so, don't know.

Someone reported getting -2.75 deg at the front with Powerflex, without mentioning anything about having to replace the other Toyota bolt; so, I guess, that's your clue.

 

[Michael Knight]

I've never had such a setting; so, don't know.

Someone reported getting -2.75 deg at the front with Powerflex, without mentioning anything about having to replace the other Toyota bolt; so, I guess, that's your clue.

that would be spot on. what I got during installation I feel its not a problem to get more camber with powerflex bolt. so I let the adjustment shop do their work..

 

[zoid]

Hi

Are the following parts correct for GR YARIS 2023..... to adjust front/rear camper to max -3 deg...? (using stock suspension)

Powerflex PFA100-17 PowerAlign Camber Bolt Kit (17 mm) - powerflex-shop.com P, 37,84 €

Powerflex PFA100-17 PowerAlign Camber Bolt Kit (17 mm) Fit for following Models: Toyota Previa / Estima / Tarago (1990 - 1997) Toyota RAV4 / Vanguard (2006

www.powerflex-shop.com

2 x Powerflex PFA100-12-70 PowerAlign Rear Upper Arm Outer Camber Bolt Kit fo, 32,52 €

2 x Powerflex PFA100-12-70 PowerAlign Rear Upper Arm Outer Camber Bolt Kit for Toyota Yaris GR PU Bush / PU Busches / Polyurethan ****PFA100-12-70 PowerAlig

www.powerflex-shop.com

 

[Orion]

Hi

Are the following parts correct for GR YARIS 2023..... to adjust front/rear camper to max -3 deg...? (using stock suspension)

Powerflex PFA100-17 PowerAlign Camber Bolt Kit (17 mm) - powerflex-shop.com P, 37,84 €

Powerflex PFA100-17 PowerAlign Camber Bolt Kit (17 mm) Fit for following Models: Toyota Previa / Estima / Tarago (1990 - 1997) Toyota RAV4 / Vanguard (2006

www.powerflex-shop.com

2 x Powerflex PFA100-12-70 PowerAlign Rear Upper Arm Outer Camber Bolt Kit fo, 32,52 €

2 x Powerflex PFA100-12-70 PowerAlign Rear Upper Arm Outer Camber Bolt Kit for Toyota Yaris GR PU Bush / PU Busches / Polyurethan ****PFA100-12-70 PowerAlig

www.powerflex-shop.com

Yes, those are the parts.
With those you can get to max -3.5° / -2.75° front/rear, but only if you position the tabs precisely

 

[zoid]

Yes, those are the parts.
With those you can get to max -3.5° / -2.75° front/rear, but only if you position the tabs precisely

Thanks for your reply!

I suppose the guy at the service point will be familiar about the tabs correct position....

I am thinking about the following setup

Front Camber: L-2.5°, R-2.5°
Toe: L+0,5mm, R+0,5mm
Caster: L+5.8°, R+5.8° - max factory values??

Rear Camber: L-2.5°, R-2.5°
Toe: L+1mm, R+1mm

Is this a balanced setup ?
I don't want to loose factory stability e.g. tramlining, braking....

 

[Michael Knight]

Thanks for your reply!

I suppose the guy at the service point will be familiar about the tabs correct position....

I am thinking about the following setup

Front Camber: L-2.5°, R-2.5°
Toe: L+0,5mm, R+0,5mm
Caster: L+5.8°, R+5.8° - max factory values??

Rear Camber: L-2.5°, R-2.5°
Toe: L+1mm, R+1mm

Is this a balanced setup ?
I don't want to loose factory stability e.g. tramlining, braking....

I'm at 2degrees 45min front and rear tick under 2deg 30min. its nice to my liking but drive a lot of road so it depends a bit on your HW setup and preference. but don't want car to be too aggressive. It can be lit into oversteer with throttle /LFB during winter if needed in mid corner, so it works in that regard.