GR86 Is it a bit of a Widow Maker?

bqf

bqf

Absorbed member
Apr 14, 2022
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East Sussex
I have to say, the GR86 is a bit of a livewire on cold roads. I've been using it over winter a couple of times a week and it has totally lost it's sh8t a couple of times, and I don't drive like a lunatic.
My hobby is motor racing, and i'm a motor racing instructor, and so I'm not the worst driver in the world, but I reckon this car could easily catch a good few people out.
Anyone have any mildly alarming experiences? I find the traction control terribly over excitable as well....
I'm really struggling to warm to it as a fun car for the road. I expect it will be terrific on track, but thats what I have race cars for.
 
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If your GR86 is on the OEM tyres during these colder months, then that behaviour won't come as a surprise to some of the members here. We've had a few people come-a-cropper thanks to its 'lively' back end. Putting some All-Season rubber on can help, as well as going up to a 225 sized tyre. A nice 'drift' into Tesco is sure to get a round of applause from the kids across the road though eh? 🫨
 
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Another thing to look in to is alignment. Plenty of anecdotal evidence of some wildly inconsistent factory settings so potentially yours might be suffering on that front ? Certainly worth investigating.
 
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bqf said:
I have to say, the GR86 is a bit of a livewire on cold roads. I've been using it over winter a couple of times a week and it has totally lost it's sh8t a couple of times, and I don't drive like a lunatic.
My hobby is motor racing, and i'm a motor racing instructor, and so I'm not the worst driver in the world, but I reckon this car could easily catch a good few people out.
Anyone have any mildly alarming experiences? I find the traction control terribly over excitable as well....
I'm really struggling to warm to it as a fun car for the road. I expect it will be terrific on track, but thats what I have race cars for.
Click to expand...
Have been saying this for sometime.

GR86 a proper bit of kit that has to be respected.
 
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I agree entirely with this. It's my opinion that a spirited, but not entirely competent driver would crash this car if they tried to go around corners too quickly. I think it could quite easily be crashed even at modest speeds. Especially by someone used to throwing one-dimentional (understeery) cars around with a heavy foot.

I've done a decent amount of track driving and karting, and the thought of a complete novice to RWD (my wife) driving my car fills me with dread!
 
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I think I've been spoiled by fast-ish cars with lots of safety interventions that (on the whole) keep the car on the road regardless of who is behind the wheel - and their competence.

I got my GR86 to substitute for my ZZR1400PS to stop my wife panicking every time I/we went out. I tend to drive the GR86 with the same caution I ride a bike - fast and agile when appropriate, but controlled and constrained most of the time.

Still have my old TL1000R v-twin in the garage too - it’s predecessor, the TL1000S - now that was a true widowmaker!
 
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Yes, agreed. I also race (Caterham) and love the fact it’s got similar characteristics that allows me to play with the rear on the throttle.

But, like the race car, not for a novice and likely to catch people out not expecting it. Having said that, if traction is kept on, it’s a pretty decent safety net.
 
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Having owned my GR for just under two years this winter has proved the most eye opening, prompting me to get some continental all seasons and an increase in width from the pilot sports 215 to 225. Below 5° the car was very spiky and didn't inspire confidence in the least which it expertly demonstrated one morning when traveling at around 35mph in 4th and under mild acceleration the rear tyres lit up and it drifted across the road, luckily there was no one else around. The traction control is hilariously liberal and I'm actually surprised Toyota sold a car like this. It still surprises me quite how wayward it became with little provocation. f***ing excellent car though, truly engaging and brimming with character, such a step on from the GT86 which I loved owning for the 5 years I did.
 
After 7000 miles I have had only one moment when I used too much throttle on a left hand bend in damp conditions and I ended up with my left hand wheels on the grass before gathering it up.

I find that it's the very things that make this car such a joy to drive also mean that you need careful throttle control in limited grip conditions. If that means driving slowly and getting left behind by more ordinary cars then that's fine by me. I would use all season tyres in winter if it was a daily driver

In other words, I'm involved in the driving process more than most other cars on sale today and I love it for that.

I certainly haven't found it to be unpredictable.
 
Nothing too alarming for me, although I’ve been driving it all winter and can say - even with full winter tyres 215/45/17 - it is very sensitive to slippery road surfaces in the cold! This is a blessing during a very early morning commute over some nice roads, with predictable sliding - although even dry dusty salt surfaces get the rear out earlier than expected sometimes.

I ride a superbike (no traction or abs) when possible during the summer months, driving the 86 I enjoy similar feelings - don’t take the piss and you will live!! Through bends, slow in/fast out type driving seems to suit it well in less favourable conditions.

Very easy to find its limits, unlike Golf R’s and such which I’ve found that you need to drive at 9/10’s to get the same pleasure.
 
My number one rule, turn in early. Corner I mean. You can always unwind.
 
I don't think it' s a car for the inexperienced. Yes it can be lively on cold greasy roads, but it is front engined, RWD with a slippy diff. My first winter in my GR86 after three in a GR Yaris which is a flattering car for the driver, was quite different. My perspective is finesse, something you hardly need in a Yaris, but essential for driving the 86 well.

Don't worry it is amazing in the summer and actually it's so controllable in wet but slightly warmer conditions if you want to steer by the throttle. Once you acclimatise to it, then its actually really predictable and easy to balance on the throttle. I took mine for couple of track days just so I could properly explore the limits and find out how shite the stock brakes are. ;) But that transformed how I drove it on the road and really helps with confidence in it. Three and a half years in a Yaris ruined me a bit. I had a GT86 for 9 years prior to the Yaris in which I sprinted and tracked a lot.
 
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bqf said:
Anyone have any mildly alarming experiences?
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Yup.

Luckily however, no harm done. No damage except a bruised ego. I've been driving front-engined, RWD cars daily for 14 years so I can't blame inexperience. It just caught me out while making the most mundane of manoeuvres.

After that incident I had the alignment done and it was pretty wayward, as they all seem to be from factory. With that sorted, and now a different set of tyres the car feels, much better. In the coming weeks I'm also going to look to upgrade the steering rack bushes and bolts...I still do sense that the steering is a little numb compared to the previous generation, so hopefully that might help my confidence in the car even more.
 
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bqf said:
I have to say, the GR86 is a bit of a livewire on cold roads. I've been using it over winter a couple of times a week and it has totally lost it's sh8t a couple of times, and I don't drive like a lunatic.
My hobby is motor racing, and i'm a motor racing instructor, and so I'm not the worst driver in the world, but I reckon this car could easily catch a good few people out.
Anyone have any mildly alarming experiences? I find the traction control terribly over excitable as well....
I'm really struggling to warm to it as a fun car for the road. I expect it will be terrific on track, but thats what I have race cars for.
Click to expand...
I agree that the car is a livewire and you have to be "on your game" during wet and slippery road conditions.

Even when the traction control is fully on, at low speeds the car can step out quite a fair way if you are liberal with the throttle with some steering lock on and this can make the car feel edgy/twitchy. My wife found this out to her surprise when exiting John Lewis and turning right onto a roundabout. Fortunately, she didn't hit anything!

However, it is a pretty friendly/predictable car to drive over the limit if you are experienced with RWD-Slippy Diff and are expecting it to step out and you are happy to control it on the throttle and steering. Getting off the throttle and "hoping it will come back" is what most people would do and that's where the majority of crash danger lies...

I agree completely that it is not the ideal car for RWD novices. It most certainly can and will catch some people out and you have to respect that it might "let go" in low temps/wet road conditions.
 
It's certainly keen to rotate under power with lock on. I've only had one surprise on the straight though, and that was probably road surface induced - it is easy to assume the lack of torque requires no extra attention but yes, grip levels are down compared to similarly tyred cars.
 
I read this post and if you are old enough to remember / drive this format of car in the late 80’s and 90’s would you now not classify them all Widow makers? Sadly nanny state and levels of mechanical and electrical (over) engineering have performance cars easy to drive at pace (look how high the limits are on Porsche since 987/997) and when someone has the wonderful idea to go back to basics (still has TC, ABS mind you) people talk about it is a widow maker, should we not be saying it’s an ‘honest car’ with lower limits that mean you don’t have to be doing silly speeds for it to be fun.
On tyres, it’s all been said before re temp and road conditions. If you rack up to a junction and the tyres are cold (say sub 8) and been driven 500m from being started, they are not going perform and the rear will happily step out without much fuss. The other end of the scale is you would have never seen a F1 car do a hot lap with stone cold tyres, and for very good reason.
All said and done I love that this honest car requires your attention and makes you think about more than just pressing the pedals and turning the wheel.
 
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